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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by tbhausen
    The court's current decision isn't necessarily right. Courts will sentence you to jail time for starving your cat or dog, but allow it to be done to a human being. Is this really America in 2005? I hope Terri's legacy is raised awareness, at the very least. Seems a lot of living wills are being executed these days.

    Do any of you "pro-starvation" folks want to see pictures or video of Terri in two days? A week? The day she finally dies? Visualize that, if you dare. Still comfortable with your position?

    This is too sad and depressing to contemplate further. Everyone knows where I stand and I can't articulate it any more clearly. I'm outta here.

    Todd/Indy
    Cya
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    "however, in the end, I think the best thing for Terri is to let her go (and I just hope that was her wish). IMHO"

    I agree.. if the courts decide it is best to let terri go, than I can support that, as long as we can make that process as comfortable as possible for her. the way we are currently letting this go leaves much to be desired.
    Have you even looked at the amount of court decisions and the material involved in the past decade?!?!?
  3.    #123  
    tbhausen, it looks to me like when all you are asking for is for someone to be treated humanely here during their final days, you are met with personal attacks, sarcasm and complete callousness.
    really warms your heart to know that these are the attitudes of people these days, in the 21st century, doesn't it?
    well, situations like this don't turn the lights on for anybody until they happen under their rooves, then somehow they take on a whole different feel.
    what goes around comes around, folks.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    ....what goes around comes around, folks.
    Boom-a-rang, folks
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  5.    #125  
    "have you even looked at the amount of court decisions and the material involved in the past decade?!?!?"

    those court decisions are not what truly bother me, da. its the sobering idea that we are starving someone to death, here!
    now I've said it before. I don't have a problem with putting an end to terri's or anyone else suffering when their lives are so terribly handicapped as this. but its the manner with which we are letting terri go that bothers me.
    now you've mentioned that they administer pain killers at some point in the process. well that at least is a comforting thought and id like to hope that they will do so with terri near the end. I was under the assumption previously that this would not be the case.
    it just comes down to decency here, da. that's all im arguing here. nothing more. putting aside all this ridiculous namecalling and sarcastic drivel we have in this thread, that is all I am hoping for.
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Have you even looked at the amount of court decisions and the material involved in the past decade?!?!?
    Yep, no less than *sixteen* judges and *twenty-three* appeals over ? sixteen years. I would bet they have had more chance to look at the details of this case than any of us. This was not exactly a rush decision on a "whim".

    I am just shocked by the horrible overstepping of boundries of congress on this case. This should fall on the supreme court for appeals not congress. What a mess.
    Pilot 512 >PPilot Pro > PalmV > Tungsten T > T3> Treo 650 Cingular
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    those court decisions are not what truly bother me, da. its the sobering idea that we are starving someone to death, here!
    Actually, since they are witholding food and water it really should not be that bad. She will probably sleep alot. As her kidneys shut down she will probably go in a coma like state. If they witheld food only it would take considerably longer.

    [Edit] Hey I missed I broke over 100 posts Only another 1500+ to catch up with you treobk ..hehe
    Pilot 512 >PPilot Pro > PalmV > Tungsten T > T3> Treo 650 Cingular
  8.    #128  
    Only another 1500+ to catch up with you treobk ..hehe"

    ill be here to high five ya when ya tie the record!
  9. #129  
    I try to look at this case from Terri's perspective. She either wanted to be put on life support if this ever happened or she didn't (either way-a living will would have helped).

    A. If she did want to be put on life support, it appears that we may never know (and the husband is lying). -However, up until now the courts have believed the husbands testimony over the parents. If we pull the plug and she didn't want us to, its a travesty.

    B. If she didn't want to be on life support, then the 'right' decision is being made (so far). I don't know about you guys, but I have not discussed my wishes with my parents (but I have with my spouse). -Which is what I think 'most' people would do.

    Terri has a right to her own personal autonomy. Can you imagine if Terri is aware of what's going on and has been waiting 15 long years to finally be allowed to die and her parents can't say goodbye and are needlessly prolonging it?

    I don't know if she is 'there' or not, but the thought of her wishing she could die and not being able to kills me. What she has right now is not a life as most of us have experienced. IMHO

    BTW-I feel for everyone involved in this...especially for Judges who are pulled into this and have to make such Hobbesian choices without ever really knowing for sure what really happened.
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

  10.    #130  
    good points.
  11. #131  
    Assuming that Terri is a practicing Catholic as her parents are, it's probable that she would have followed the teaching of the Church (of course which happened sometime around last summer, so if "a tree falls in a forest ..."). Michael hasn't shown himself to be as committed to Catholic teachings (having children with another woman while still being married). I don't want to pass judgement. I'm sure Michael is doing what he feels is right. I just want to say that his sense of "right" is warped by a "culture of death" that is moving towards saying "it is OK to euthanize, it is OK to kill people who want to be killed, and etc." But as a Catholic, our Church defines the power of giving and taking lives as God's, not ours. The Pope has clearly stated that hydration and feeding are not medical interventions, but instead caring for life at a stage where a person is not capable of doing this on their own. A parent/gaurdian of a baby feeds the child that is not capable of feeding themselves. We do not keep the child in a hospital until they are capable of feeding themselves. It is a parental (gaurdian's) responsibilty to feed the child. The Church is saying that this situation is no different. Terri has already lived 15 years, because her family has taken steps to care for her in a manner that kept her away from death for so long. I haven't seen anything indicating that her condition has deteriorated. Her family might have kept her alive for several more years. The point is, we are mistaking "feeding/hydration" vs "life support". My father was on a ventilator after a failed heart operation. The decision to take him off life-support was an agonizing one for our family. In this case, the Church teaches that it is OK to terminate life-support. (That did not make it any easier, even though we saw his condition deteriorate during his stay in the hospital to the point we knew he was going to die as a result of his brain injury.) Like Terri, he would move his eyes, and blink them as a yes response to questions (or so I deduced).
    It was hard to see my father go from an "I don't need anybody" sort of guy to an "I'm totally dependent and helpless" person, but he was at peace, and always said yes when I asked him if he wanted me to pray a rosary for/with him. He wouldn't have given a danm, about a rosary when I was younger.

    It's impossible for us to know what goes through someone's mind when they are in this state, but I know I saw a very changed man in my dad when this happened. I also knew that the circuits were "on" but not connected to most of his motor coordination and all of his speech. This did not diminish the value of his life. It probably increased it's value, because he was forced to stop from always doing everything in order to think about what comes after life. I'm grateful for the way God prepared him for his afterlife even though it was painful.

    I'd ask you pray, in your own way, for Terri, Michael, and her parents and family. Pray that Terri does not go through too much pain and that she is ready to accept her after-life. Pray that Michael and Terri's family can come to terms during and after the grieving (which lessens, but never ends). Lastly, think about whether the meanings of what we're discussing here [whether this ]say[s] anything about our society, and as Claire says, do something about it if that bothers you.

    Thanks for listening and letting me say my piece.
    Last edited by sudoer; 03/23/2005 at 12:16 AM.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    "have you even looked at the amount of court decisions and the material involved in the past decade?!?!?"

    those court decisions are not what truly bother me, da. its the sobering idea that we are starving someone to death, here!
    now I've said it before. I don't have a problem with putting an end to terri's or anyone else suffering when their lives are so terribly handicapped as this. but its the manner with which we are letting terri go that bothers me.
    now you've mentioned that they administer pain killers at some point in the process. well that at least is a comforting thought and id like to hope that they will do so with terri near the end. I was under the assumption previously that this would not be the case.
    it just comes down to decency here, da. that's all im arguing here. nothing more. putting aside all this ridiculous namecalling and sarcastic drivel we have in this thread, that is all I am hoping for.
    That's all her husband has been fighting for, per her stated beliefs to him. Look! I'm not a DNR prospect AT ALL. I'm an atheist and as long as I have two frontal brain cells to rub together stick plugs and tubes where you have to. This poor woman has no frontal lobes. She has no material to have self realization. She's only animated by the base of her spine and it's wrong for her parents to keep the body alive so they can have an animated doll that was her daughter.

    It's worse yet for the GOP to use this issue politically.
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by Joebar
    Where do I buy this case? Will my Treo fit in the cradle while in the Terry case?

    oh...

    misleading thread title.... bah
    I have to admit that your crude humor brightened my spirits while catching up on this thread. Thanks for being yourself Joe!
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  14. #134  
    I still find this a difficult and troubling decision, but, in my not-so-humble opinion, the Schindler's need to recognize that they've done all they could possibly do, but they lost. They need to deal with their denial and move forward in their grief. For 15 years, they've been in denial about the severity of Terri's condition.
  15.    #135  
    "i have to admit that your crude humor brightened my spirits while catching up on this thread. Thanks for being yourself Joe! "

    well it appears I was wrong, joe. everyone finds it pretty funny - so it looks like that's my bad.
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    "well it appears I was wrong, joe. everyone finds it pretty funny - so it looks like that's my bad.
    Dont be so hard on yourself, BK. We all react to these things differently. Your reaction was not "wrong" either.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  17.    #137  
    "i still find this a difficult and troubling decision, but, in my not-so-humble opinion, the Schindler's need to recognize that they've done all they could possibly do, but they lost. They need to deal with their denial and move forward in their grief. For 15 years, they've been in denial about the severity of Terri's condition. "

    looking over all this again, I think your're right.
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    "i have to admit that your crude humor brightened my spirits while catching up on this thread. Thanks for being yourself Joe! "

    well it appears I was wrong, joe. everyone finds it pretty funny - so it looks like that's my bad.
    Took ya long enuff
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  19.    #139  
    "that's all her husband has been fighting for, per her stated beliefs to him. Look! I'm not a DNR prospect AT ALL. I'm an atheist and as long as I have two frontal brain cells to rub together stick plugs and tubes where you have to. This poor woman has no frontal lobes. She has no material to have self realization. She's only animated by the base of her spine and it's wrong for her parents to keep the body alive so they can have an animated doll that was her daughter.

    It's worse yet for the GOP to use this issue politically. "

    I hear you, da. you've made a key point there regarding the deteriorated status of terri's brain.
    it would make sense for us to further someone's life along in the hopes of rehabilitating certain parts of their mental capacities ( ie frontal lobes) in the future, but if these faculties no longer exist, what possible future could we ever hope to rehabilitate her into?
    I believe I now understand the situation a bit better now. without these frontal lobes, it is impossible to move forward, so bringing this to conclusion does seem more feasible now.
  20.    #140  
    "Took ya long enuff"

    - clairegrrl

    sorry claire. please accept my apologies, my friend.
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