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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I'm simply sick of the religious right whackos standing around in this family's yard dressed up like moses screaming lunacies.

    Enough. This is a personal situation.

    you are an angry fool, da. get yourself checked out. youve got some serious issues, dude.
  2.    #22  
    "Prove your claims" - nrg

    http://www.crisismagazine.com/january2004/johansen.htm


    A Husband With an Agenda
    The immediate cause of Terri’s brain damage was cardiac arrest, which caused her brain to be deprived of oxygen for more than five minutes. In January 1993, Michael Schiavo won a malpractice award of $1.6 million from the hospital that treated Terri. He was also personally awarded $600,000 for loss of consortium. In his testimony, Michael spoke of his love for his wife and his intentions to honor his wedding vows for the rest of his life and to use the award money for Terri’s care and rehabilitation. Indeed, Michael repeatedly assured Bob and Mary Schindler that he would seek rehabilitation therapy for Terri once he had obtained a settlement.

    A month after Michael received the money, the Schindlers approached their son-in-law to remind him of his promise. This led to a heated argument, with Bob and Michael yelling in the hall outside Terri’s room. Michael stormed off and vowed that he was going to see his lawyer and that Bob and Mary would “never see [their] daughter again.”

    A month after this incident, the Schindlers were informed that Michael had cut off their access to Terri’s medical information. As her husband, Michael was granted guardianship over Terri and had the legal authority to issue the order, which remains in place to this day. Terri’s doctors and nurses were not to discuss her medical condition with the Schindlers. Bob and Mary later learned that shortly after, Michael gave a “Do Not Resuscitate” order for Terri, even though she was in no danger of death.

    The staff of Terri’s nursing home was sympathetic to the Schindlers and frequently gave them information in spite of Michael’s medical “gag order.” Later that year, Bob and Mary learned that Terri had a serious urinary tract infection and that Michael had ordered the nursing home not to give her treatment, which would have consisted of a simple course of antibiotics. They were informed by the nursing home staff (going against the gag order), not Michael, as he himself admitted in this exchange with the attorney for the Schindlers in the 1993 guardianship hearing"

    there is something basically wrong with this "gentleman" - michael schiavo.
    i dont believe we are dealing with a genuine individual here. i guess we will just have to wait and see what develops.
    Last edited by treobk214; 03/19/2005 at 03:59 PM.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    This situation should involve the husband and the parents and a court, ONLY.

    It has nothing to do with you, me, or that gaggle of religious FREAKS loitering outside their home.
    Wow, lighten up daT!

    I had asked for your opinion about Doctor Assisted Suicide, and the legalities (if you knew) of such actions. Though I don't always agree with you, I do respect your legal opinions on things.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  4. #24  
    And once again, why the Congress of the United States of America needs to get involved, aside from political grandstanding is beyond me. But, here you go.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  5.    #25  
    "While many who saw the video found it compelling evidence that Terri is in fact conscious, Judge Greer did not.

    Although he had to be asked twice to look at his monitor and to put his glasses back on so he could see it clearly, he did not find the video evidence sufficiently “consistent and reproducible"


    this judge greer, ladies and gentlemen, is LEGALLY BLIND! we are leaving this absolute decision to someone who is unable to view the critical evidence? wow. this is a farce.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    And once again, why the Congress of the United States of America needs to get involved, aside from political grandstanding is beyond me. But, here you go.
    Agreed 100%
  7. #27  
    Sort of how we conservative feel about anti-war protesters, ELF members, Peta members, environmental whackos, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    It has nothing to do with you, me, or that gaggle of religious FREAKS loitering outside their home.
  8. #28  
    Isn't the issue about the husband. He states this is what she said, but her parent's state she wouldn't have said this. So there's nothing in writing, the husband has left her for years living with another girl and they have two children. I simply question did Terry really want this or does the husband want it? I think her intentions have to be established.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Isn't the issue about the husband. He states this is what she said, but her parent's state she wouldn't have said this. So there's nothing in writing, the husband has left her for years living with another girl and they have two children. I simply question did Terry really want this or does the husband want it? I think her intentions have to be established.
    That's the issue. How is anyone to know her intentions at this point? It's not like you can ask her. Doctors have said she's basically a vegetable, with no hope. So the "chain of command" in this case would go to the husband. The parents it seems are on the outside looking in.

    Unless the parents can prove that his motives are purely monetary in nature, I don't think there is anything anyone can do now. Of course, I'm not a lawyer, just play one in forums, but that's my take of it.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  10. #30  
    From recent family member experience this last December, I can assure you this is a horrible way to die. They will probably have her on a morphine drip at some point, but it will be awful for family members watching. Not sure what the answer is to this one, no solution.
  11.    #31  
    advance, that's exactly my point.

    some say here that the parents are on the outside looking in here. you know, her parents are caring for he firsthand everyday! michael schiavo just wants her gone, out of his life. I think its the other way around. now legally maybe the parents are on the outside, but I don't think its right.
    those who visibly care the most for a person should be given the power to decide their fate, not some obviously callous estranged husband. THATS the way it SHOULD BE.
    as far as grandstanding, I believe congress is stepping in because they don't feel comfortable with the way this case is being handled either. so what's wrong with that? at least someone has the courage to do something about this situation!
    I can recall a one john kerry grandstanding in his claim that christopher reeves would walk one day if he were president. well, where is john kerry's voice NOW?
    if michael shiavo was terri's only family, than he could be given the power to make such a decision. not the case. those who love her the most should be given that right. it is certainly not michael shiavo.
  12. #32  
    I believe congress is stepping in because they don't feel comfortable with the way this case is being handled either. so what's wrong with that?
    What's wrong with that is that constitutionally, Congress has no legal power over this case whatsoever. This is (& should be) only a case for the courts to decide, since that is where the legal battle between the Schindlers and Michael Schiavo should legally occur. State legislatures and the US Congress have absolutely no pwer and no right to intervene in this case. I know that the Schindlers' are in a lot of emotional pain. But what they are encouraging Congress to enact will encroach upon every citizen's rights to refuse medical treatment.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    advance, that's exactly my point.

    some say here that the parents are on the outside looking in here. you know, her parents are caring for he firsthand everyday! michael schiavo just wants her gone, out of his life. I think its the other way around. now legally maybe the parents are on the outside, but I don't think its right.
    those who visibly care the most for a person should be given the power to decide their fate, not some obviously callous estranged husband. THATS the way it SHOULD BE.
    as far as grandstanding, I believe congress is stepping in because they don't feel comfortable with the way this case is being handled either. so what's wrong with that? at least someone has the courage to do something about this situation!
    I can recall a one john kerry grandstanding in his claim that christopher reeves would walk one day if he were president. well, where is john kerry's voice NOW?
    if michael shiavo was terri's only family, than he could be given the power to make such a decision. not the case. those who love her the most should be given that right. it is certainly not michael shiavo.
    You need to remove your personal feelings from this. The Federal Legislative branch of our government has no authority to interfere in a personal decision like this.

    This has nothing to do with Congress not feeling comfortable with this case. This is all about gaining votes. How many of them know what Terri Schiavo wants? Not one. From what I've heard of this bill, it only opens the door for Federal Courts to hear this case. It has been litigated as far as it will go. The US Supreme Court already denied an appeal without comment. It is not a matter of Federal intervention. Given that the ruling as it is now (to remove the tube) will most likely be upheld by any Court, is this fair to keep inserting and removing the tube from her?

    I would guess that when Bill and Hillary Clinton tried to nationalize health care, you probably screamed bloody murder (as did I.) And now you want them to interfere on an individual basis?
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  14. #34  
    Wow, very informative article. Objectively reported. Definitely worth reading.
    I'm both super! ... and a doer!
  15.    #35  
    "Florida courts for seven years have found by a standard of clear and convincing evidence, that it is Terri Schiavo's wishes that she not remain in a permanent vegetative state," said Rep. Robert Wexler, a Florida Democrat"

    clear and convincing evidence? really? show me that evidence. is there a legal document with terri's signature stating she never want to be left in a vegetative state?
    I want to see this so-called "clear and convincing evidence" that this was what she wished for.
  16.    #36  
    "This has nothing to do with Congress not feeling comfortable with this case. This is all about gaining votes. How many of them know what Terri Schiavo wants? Not one. From what I've heard of this bill, it only opens the door for Federal Courts to hear this case."

    no one knows what terri wants. so why do some insist then that the best way to deal with her plight is to end it?
    if we cannot determine her wishes, who are we, then, to determine her fate?
    if we don't have legal documentation that she would have wanted her feeding tube removed, then we cannot leave her fate up to some cold-hearted, estranged husband, who clearly just wants her out of the way.
    michael should just divorce her, since he wants to move on. why doesn't he do this? because he couldn't claim the $2 million in settlements, correct?
    apparently I have to remove my personal feelings from this
    case. well, that's the thing, how do you know that such a situation won't befall yours or my family one day?
    legally, it looks like its up to the husband to decide the spouse's fate & what's in here best interests here. but it looks like that "husband" could care less about her best interests.
    this is why I think we should place the power of decison into the schindler's hands. if it takes a motion by congress to get that done, so be it. what it comes down to here is doing what's right by terri, whatever it takes.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    "This has nothing to do with Congress not feeling comfortable with this case. This is all about gaining votes. How many of them know what Terri Schiavo wants? Not one. From what I've heard of this bill, it only opens the door for Federal Courts to hear this case."

    no one knows what terri wants. so why do some insist then that the best way to deal with her plight is to end it?
    if we cannot determine her wishes, who are we, then, to determine her fate?
    if we don't have legal documentation that she would have wanted her feeding tube removed, then we cannot leave her fate up to some cold-hearted, estranged husband, who clearly just wants her out of the way.
    michael should just divorce her, since he wants to move on. why doesn't he do this? because he couldn't claim the $2 million in settlements, correct?
    apparently I have to remove my personal feelings from this
    case. well, that's the thing, how do you know that such a situation won't befall yours or my family one day?
    legally, it looks like its up to the husband to decide the spouse's fate & what's in here best interests here. but it looks like that "husband" could care less about her best interests.
    this is why I think we should place the power of decison into the schindler's hands. if it takes a motion by congress to get that done, so be it. what it comes down to here is doing what's right by terri, whatever it takes.
    Whatever it takes?!? Do you not see the precedence this would set? What sets her apart from any number of other people that may be in a similar position?? If Congress does this for her, who's next? You can't play favorites here. You do it for her, you have to do it for everybody else. Is this what you want? Is this what Congress is supposed to do from now on? This is not their "jurisdiction" for lack of a better term.

    You may want guardianship placed in the Schindlers hands, however this has been litigated over and over. A decision has been reached. "We" have determined her wishes. The legal system did so.

    I would hate to be in the Shindlers position. But I would hate even more to make a spectacle out of my loved one, such as is happening now.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  18.    #38  
    Whatever it takes?!? Do you not see the precedence this would set? What sets her apart from any number of other people that may be in a similar position?? If Congress does this for her, who's next?
    You can't play favorites here. You do it for her, you have to do it for everybody else. Is this what you want?

    listen, insertion, what i want is for everyone and anyone in such a position to be given the best possible consideration, and if it takes having to set a new precedent to make sure everyone gets the best possible treatment, then like i said, so be it. i cant play favorites? when did i mention only terri should get this consideration? there are no favorites here, im talking about all people in this situation.


    Is this what Congress is supposed to do from now on? This is not their "jurisdiction" for lack of a better term.

    "You may want guardianship placed in the Schindlers hands, however this has been litigated over and over. A decision has been reached. "We" have determined her wishes. The legal system did so."



    well, then i guess i differ with what "we" have determined her wishes to be. i am uncomfortable, then, with what our legal system has decided here.
    that is where the legal system is wrong, at least in my opinion. maybe i am wrong, here, but i feel the decision to extend or halt life of any individual should ALWAYS be given to those who love them the most, not to someone who might be trying to eliminate her in order to enjoy a financial gain. THAT is the problem i am having with this situation.

    because you see, michael, is rewarded with $2 million from terri`s death. what are her parents rewarded with? pain, guilt, sadness and anger.


    "I would hate to be in the Shindlers position. But I would hate even more to make a spectacle out of my loved one, such as is happening now."

    i think they view this not as a spectacle, but as a fight for terri`s life, insertion.

    you and i differ in how we view this situation.
    let's just see what happens
    Last edited by treobk214; 03/20/2005 at 09:49 PM.
  19. #39  
    Geez...enuff of this. Let's get back to the real issues. Like Haliburton and Diebold.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  20. #40  
    What's going to happen, with the political forces coming to bear on Congress , is that Congress will trample all over our civil liberties allowing us (or our next of kin) to control our acceptance/denial of medical care. Did you know that your advance directive is just a useless piece of paper with your name on it? Already, your next of kin can order medical personnel to disregard YOUR wishes and sustain your life WITHOUT your consent. If the Schindlers have their way, then it won't matter what your LEGAL next of kin wants done, who may be following your wishes (verbal or written), any member of your family will be able to go to court and PROLONG YOUR SUFFERING against your will. How the hell is that fair? How does it preserve MY right to control MY life and death? It doesn't. The Schindlers are selfish and in denial. They don't care that their endeavors will jeopardize all of our rights. All they care about is getting their own way.
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