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  1. #241  
    I love the phrase "why not err on the side of life." Do you oppose the death penalty? Do you oppose war? Are you a bit hypocritical? As a society we make life and death decisions every day. And many times, the decision is death.

    If I'm ever faced with the same difficult decision, I don't want you or the government thinking it is your business. If it were me, I would not want to live in the condition Terri is living in. And if I were sentient, I'd probably want to live in that condition even less. Simply put, it's not YOUR decision to make, nor mine, nor the governor of Florida's, nor any other government official's decision.

    Why not err on the side of keeping the government out of our private lives? That's what conservatives claim to believe, until that belief is overridden by some other personal issue. But, honestly, conservatives want to insinuate the government into our lives in more ways than ever, as long as it's done to support their conservative beliefs. Conservatives want the government to decide who we can marry, how and when we can die, what kind of sex we can have, and with who, what medical advice our doctors can give us, and what medical procedures we're allowed to have, and what religious beliefs we have to hear. The liberals never tried to control my life like you all do.

    I have a message to all the so called "small government conservatives:" Get the H*** out of my bedroom, my doctors office, my church, and my life!
    Bob Meyer
    I'm out of my mind. But feel free to leave a message.
  2. #242  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    Why not err on the side of keeping the government out of our private lives? That's what conservatives claim to believe, until that belief is overridden by some other personal issue. But, honestly, conservatives want to insinuate the government into our lives in more ways than ever, as long as it's done to support their conservative beliefs. Conservatives want the government to decide who we can marry, how and when we can die, what kind of sex we can have, and with who, what medical advice our doctors can give us, and what medical procedures we're allowed to have, and what religious beliefs we have to hear.
    Not all do.

    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    I have a message to all the so called "small government conservatives:" Get the H*** out of my bedroom, my doctors office, my church, and my life!
    ummm...I am.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  3. #243  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    She would not be able to feed herself without changing her condition or abilites. In that case, it would be argued that she is no longer a PVS patient.
    Semantics. I said what if.

    I can say if i were in her condition, take me out. in fact, here it is for public record (even though I have a living will), I DO NOT WISH TO LIVE UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES.
    And you know how you would feel about every life altering decision that you might need to make based on today?
    I would hope he would be executed in a timely manner, myself.

    Minor. Unless he is also PVS, he can't nor could his parents choose death. But I guess if at 18, he wanted to kill himself, it should be his choice.

    Again his decision, though I doubt he would've survived such an ordeal.

    Bad examples. All three of these "people" have deductive abilities. They aren't PVS. If THEY choose to go on like that, more power to them. If they chose to end it, that should be their right as well.

    Warring African factions are doing a good enough job of this. We need not lend a hand.

    If you have the ability to CHANGE YOUR MIND. Terri Schiavo doesn't even have a mind to speak of. In fact, Chicks ostrich is more aware and able to think than Terri Schivo is at this point.
    These are all quality of life issues and many people think thats an important factor. Ability to change ones mind was not mentioned. I should have just assumed that was what they meant?

    Why would I want to "live" like that?

    "Jim, they took Spocks brain!"

    I would never want that. That would be Hell on Earth, living in my own tomb.
    would it be hell on earth if you could still watch your children grow?


    Because, HE is the gaurdian in this matter. It has been determined that it was her wishes to die, therefore HE (and NOT the Schindlers) bears the responsibility. That's what courts are for.
    Just because he can doesnt mean he should.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  4. #244  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    I love the phrase "why not err on the side of life." Do you oppose the death penalty? Do you oppose war? Are you a bit hypocritical? As a society we make life and death decisions every day. And many times, the decision is death.

    If I'm ever faced with the same difficult decision, I don't want you or the government thinking it is your business. If it were me, I would not want to live in the condition Terri is living in. And if I were sentient, I'd probably want to live in that condition even less. Simply put, it's not YOUR decision to make, nor mine, nor the governor of Florida's, nor any other government official's decision.

    Why not err on the side of keeping the government out of our private lives? That's what conservatives claim to believe, until that belief is overridden by some other personal issue. But, honestly, conservatives want to insinuate the government into our lives in more ways than ever, as long as it's done to support their conservative beliefs. Conservatives want the government to decide who we can marry, how and when we can die, what kind of sex we can have, and with who, what medical advice our doctors can give us, and what medical procedures we're allowed to have, and what religious beliefs we have to hear. The liberals never tried to control my life like you all do.

    I have a message to all the so called "small government conservatives:" Get the H*** out of my bedroom, my doctors office, my church, and my life!

    I never said anything about the govt making the decision. I thinks is silly they are involved.

    Conservatives want the government to decide who we can marry, how and when we can die, what kind of sex we can have, and with who, what medical advice our doctors can give us, and what medical procedures we're allowed to have, and what religious beliefs we have to hear.
    At the risk of going off topic here, it sounds like you are in favor of marriage to anyone or anything based onfeelings alone, sex with whomever or whatever feels good and taking away freedom of religion. So I guess when some 40 year old guy knocks up your 11 year old daughter and wants to marry your wife and your son and you dog, you wont complain. Sure you wont. Of course you may be the 40 year old. That sure sounds like what youre after.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  5. #245  
    Quote Originally Posted by meyerweb
    I love the phrase "why not err on the side of life." Do you oppose the death penalty? Do you oppose war? Are you a bit hypocritical? As a society we make life and death decisions every day. And many times, the decision is death.
    I am pro death penalty and I think war is justified. Terry is neither a convicted criminal nor an enemy soldier. Some people deserve to be killed. I dont think a helpless woman who has done nothing wrong fits that description. That doesnt make me a hypocrit because the reasons for killing are very different. I am guessing you'll disgree with that though.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  6. #246  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Semantics. I said what if.
    It may be semantics, but realistically, if she could feed herself, this would be moot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    And you know how you would feel about every life altering decision that you might need to make based on today?
    On this particular issue, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    These are all quality of life issues and many people think thats an important factor. Ability to change ones mind was not mentioned. I should have just assumed that was what they meant?
    Other than the murderer you exampled, no one has a right to take their lives, since they were able to make that decision on their own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    would it be hell on earth if you could still watch your children grow?
    Lying in a hospice somewhere only kept alive by a machine is hardly growing. He or she may physically still grow some, but without without a mind, how can you call that growth??

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Just because he can doesnt mean he should.
    Apparently it was her wishes!! So, now he should defy it?
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  7. #247  
    Oooh, I got all excited by the thread title thinking it was a new accessory for my little Treo
    I have detailed files.
  8. #248  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    I am pro death penalty and I think war is justified. Terry is neither a convicted criminal nor an enemy soldier. Some people deserve to be killed. I dont think a helpless woman who has done nothing wrong fits that description. That doesnt make me a hypocrit because the reasons for killing are very different. I am guessing you'll disgree with that though.

    Enemy soldier? How about American soldiers? Interesting that the same people who would defy the law to protect a patient in a vegetative state, are the same who support sending American kids to die for weapons that don't exist. Let's try consistency.
  9. #249  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Probably...

    This from the Wikipedia site's article on the case: "The credentials of the doctors under the employ of Mrs. Schiavo's parents is strongly questioned. One of their physicians is not trained or certified as a neurologist, and the other (Dr. William Hammesfahr, who is a certified neurologist) is a quack who was disciplined in 2003 by the Florida board of medicine for making false claims about an untested therapy developed by him (which he touted in 2001 to be effective in treating patients in a persistent vegetative state). Dr. Hammesfahr also falsely claimed, and as of March, 2005 (when he appeared on Fox News's Hannity and Colmes and MSNBC's Scarborough Country) continues to falsely claim, to be a Nobel Prize nominee (he was nominated by an ineligable nominator and his "nomination" never came before the Nobel committee)."

    Maybe they should get Ward Churchill involved. He could do some wannabe Indian rain dance, or plagiarize someone else's medical research.
    How about this genius:

    The Schindlers had been hoping that Jeb Bush could save their daughter by presenting an affidavit from William P. Cheshire, a neurologist at the Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, Fla., who says Schiavo may be in a "minimally conscious," rather than "vegetative," state, as court-appointed doctors believe.

    Cheshire has been a vocal critic of assisted suicide. An article attributed to him on the Web site www.restorationfoundation.org advocated Jews converting to Christianity. "Should not we who are in Christ lift the yoke of persecution from the shoulders of the Jewish people and refresh them with the truth of the Lord of the Sabbath?" the article says.

    Pinellas County Circuit Judge George W. Greer ruled that Bush's attempt to use Cheshire's report as a basis for taking custody of Schiavo appeared to be a violation of the constitutional separation the legislative, judicial and executive branches. "By clear and convincing evidence, it was determined she did not want to live under such burdensome conditions and that she would refuse such medical treatment-assistance," Greer wrote.
  10. #250  
    here's the opinion of a local correspondent. Makes sense to me.

    http://www.spokane7.com/editions/story.asp?ID=60863
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  11. #251  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzi
    Enemy soldier? How about American soldiers? Interesting that the same people who would defy the law to protect a patient in a vegetative state, are the same who support sending American kids to die for weapons that don't exist. Let's try consistency.
    Not the same. It's easy to prove they chose to be in the military.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  12. #252  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Not the same. It's easy to prove they chose to be in the military.

    So, to follow that line of logic, volunteering to serve in the military gives a politician the right to put their lives in jeopardy, unnecessarily?
    Last edited by Jazzi; 03/25/2005 at 03:06 PM.
  13. #253  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzi
    So, to follow that line of logic, volunteering to serve in the military gives a politician the right to put their lives in jeopardy?
    Well, legally I guess that's accurate. What do you think the job of the military is? It's to fight. The military can't just decide to go and do this on their own.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  14. #254  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    here's the opinion of a local correspondent. Makes sense to me.

    http://www.spokane7.com/editions/story.asp?ID=60863
    All I have to read of that is the first few paragraphs and I see it's lies. More than her husband have stated under oath that Terri would not want ot be an animated vegetable.
  15. #255  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Well, legally I guess that's accurate. What do you think the job of the military is? It's to fight. The military can't just decide to go and do this on their own.

    You're right, I omitted the word I think is most important to the point -- unnecessarily.
  16. #256  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    All I have to read of that is the first few paragraphs and I see it's lies. More than her husband have stated under oath that Terri would not want ot be an animated vegetable.
    you are so predictable. Exactly what parts are lies. And mean the dictionary's definition of lie not yours.

    As to the oath given statements, do you supposed that no one has ever lied under oath? Are you really that naive?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  17. #257  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Are you really that naive?
    Umm.... I think we already know the answer to that

    Why do you always let him get you going? I remember saying just as passionately stupid things about our society when I was young and naive as well. You wont change his mind... only time can do that.
  18. #258  
    I wanted to add something about the reason for Terri Schiavo's cardiac arrest (bulimia, an eating disorder), which led to the state she is in, and that her parents probably feel guilty about that, too. But the subject was already very nicely covered by Clairegrrl, thanks.

    Also Clairegrrl's finding that the Schindler's most quoted medical expert is in fact a quack and a liar tending to delusions of grandeur is very interesting (more on that here and here: "In February 2003, the Florida Board of Medicine ruled that he violated state law by charging a patient for services that were not provided (Finding of Fact No. 71, PDF p. 40). The board fined Hammesfahr $2,000, placed him on probation for six months, and ordered him to pay approximately $52,000 in administrative costs and to perform 100 hours of community service."). Apparently, Hammersfahr is a crook, a quak and a liar, the medical Chief Disinformation Officer in the Schiavo case.

    I also found interesting that the first "Terri Schiavo" law, the one from Jeb Bush, was found unconstitutional right away by the respective court in Florida. If you think you are on a mission for god, there is little time to care about the constitution, it seems.

    However, it is good to note that Americans in general are not fooled by the propaganda surrounding the Schiavo case:
    "(CBS/AP) Congressional leaders have insisted their only motivation in getting involved in the Terri Schiavo case was saving a life. But Americans aren’t buying that argument, a CBS News poll finds.
    An overwhelming 82 percent of the public believes the Congress and President should stay out of the matter.
    Just 13 percent of those polled think Congress intervened in the case out of concern for Schiavo, while 74 percent think it was all about politics. Of those polled, 66 percent said the tube should not be inserted compared to 27 percent who want it restored. The issue has generated strong feelings, with 78 percent of those polled -- wheter for either side of the issue -- saying they have strong feelings.
    Public approval of Congress has suffered as a result; at 34 percent, it is the lowest it has been since 1997, dropping from 41 percent last month. Now at 43 percent, President Bush’s approval rating is also lower than it was a month ago."
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  19. #259  
    It's finally gotten out of hand.

    "...FBI agents have arrested a North Carolina man on suspicion of soliciting offers over the internet to kill Michael Schiavo and Greer. Richard Alan Meywes of Fairview is accused of offering $250,000 for the killing of Schiavo and another $50,000 for the "the elimination of the judge who ruled against Terry."

    Meywes was arrested without incident at his home around 5 p.m. Friday on charges of solicitation of murder and transmission of a threatening communication via interstate commerce, authorities said.

    If convicted, Meywes could face up to 15 years in prison and up to $500,000 in fines. He is expected to make an initial court appearance Monday in U.S. District Court in Asheville, North Carolina. (Full story)

    Greer has been under 24-hour protection by two U.S. marshals due to increased threats against his life by those unhappy with his handling of the Schiavo case.

    On Thursday, police arrested an Illinois man they said robbed a gun store in Seminole, Florida, as part of an attempt to "rescue Terri Schiavo."

    Michael W. Mitchell, 20, faces charges of attempted armed robbery, aggravated assault and criminal mischief, said Marianne Pasha, spokeswoman for the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office."

    http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/25/arr...avo/index.html

    Should these people be considered terrorists??
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  20. #260  
    Absolutely and they should be prosecuted as such. Clairegirl, didn't think we'd fins some common ground :-). There's hope on bringing you a bit left huh lol j/k
    When the dark clouds gather on the horizon, when thunder and lightning fills the sky, When fate is but a glint in the eye of a fallen Rattler, And hopes are lost friends, When the sinew of the chest grows weary from those hard-charging linebackers, And the muscles in the legs grow tired from those hard-charging running backs ... You must remember that the Rattlers will... Strike, Strike, and Strike again.

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