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  1. #201  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    they say that they are smaller then SBC so I will accept their information, not yours...sorry. I know how hard it is for you to admit your mistakes.
    I guess you can agree with me that data from October 2003 are outdated, regardless of where you found the data?

    So, let's check again, with real numbers:
    SBC Communications data, today's stock qoute: Market Cap 79.87 billion US$ (numbers may vary slightly since stock price changes)

    Telefonica data, today's stock quote: Market Cap (Mkt. Kap.): 68,24 Mrd(=billion) Euro
    Since one Euro is US$1.3445, that gives a market cap of US$91.68 billion for Telefonica.

    According to you, which company has the larger market capitalization, SBC Communications of Telefonica SA? Is it up to me or up to you to admit an error?
    Last edited by clulup; 03/11/2005 at 09:23 AM.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  2. #202  
    nudist, I was commenting directly from Forbes regarding 11 of the top 20 people in the world are billionaires. Does that bum you out that its a fact?
  3. #203  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I guess you can agree with me that data from October 2003 are outdated, regardless of where you found the data?

    Is it up to me or up to you to admit an error?
    Didn't she already say as much above? Should she start a new thread apologizing profusely?


    edit: whoops. My bad...thought you were talking about VZW/Voda.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  4. #204  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    According to you, which company has the larger market capitalization, SBC Communications of Telefonica SA? Is it up to me or up to you to admit an error?
    What's the REVENUE.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  5.    #205  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    nudist, I was commenting directly from Forbes regarding 11 of the top 20 people in the world are billionaires. Does that bum you out that its a fact?
    My info, that generated that critcism, was also from Forbes. If the criticism is appropriate for me, it is for you also.
  6. #206  
    Life is too short to let petty differences get in our way. The world needs love. We need love. We need each other. We are all human.


    Right.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  7. #207  
    For what it's worth, if you are going to measure the value of a company, you must add in the debt it has outstanding (incl. pref. stock and minority interest) and subtract out the cash. This is "enterprise value." Equity market value isn't the best measure of size.
  8. #208  
    Well twiddle dee twiddle dumb how bout sucking your thumb I never discounted your link to Forbes. What are paying me back? Think for yorself!
  9. #209  
    Come on you people now
    Smile on your brother
    Everybody get together
    Try to love one another right now...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  10. #210  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    For what it's worth, if you are going to measure the value of a company, you must add in the debt it has outstanding (incl. pref. stock and minority interest) and subtract out the cash. This is "enterprise value." Equity market value isn't the best measure of size.
    Thanx Kurt...I have no idea what you said but ok
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  11. #211  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Equity market value isn't the best measure of size.
    Are you implying in regards to Claire, that size matters??
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  12. #212  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Thanx Kurt...I have no idea what you said but ok
    Well, the idea is this: you have a business that is worth $1000, and I have a business worth $1000, except my business has $500 of debt attached to it. Someone is only going to be willing to pay $500 to take over my business (and thus the equity market value is $500). Someone is going to pay $1000 to take over yours (and thus the equity market value is $1000). The businesses are same size, just the capital structure is different.
  13. #213  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    What's the REVENUE.
    I am sure you can find that on the internet, revenues can be misguiding, though. The Price per Earnings (P/E, KGV in the Telefonica table) ratio of Telefonica is much higher than that of SBC (23.79 vs. 15.93), so the shareholders expect Telefonica to be more successful on the long run than SBC.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  14. #214  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    ... which company has the larger market capitalization, SBC Communications of Telefonica SA?
    I think market capitalization can be misguiding. I like Kurt's way.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  15. #215  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Life is too short to let petty differences get in our way. The world needs love. We need love. We need each other. We are all human.


    Right.
    Thank you Clairegrrl. Nicely said!
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  16. #216  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    I think market capitalization can be misguiding. I like Kurt's way.
    Sure, but shareholders know about the finacial/debt situation of a company, and include that into the share price they find reasonable (Share price times number of shares = market capitalization).
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  17. #217  
    I always thought it was the size of the building that determined the size of the company. Thats the way it was when I was a kid.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  18. #218  
    Somehow I always thought Swisstown was like the largest banking nation. Actually, they only have 1 bank in the top 25 of world banks at number 18. Intrestingly enough, the US has 6 in the top 25 including Citigroup at number 1. FYI

    Last edited by clairegrrl; 03/11/2005 at 11:58 AM.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  19. #219  
    First off, is British Vodafone a corporation based in Singapore?!? If you re-read my post Clulup, I was asking for the name of an IT/Communications company based in Singapore that could stack up against the American companies I named. So throwing British Vodafone out there makes absolutely no sense in the context of the discussion. And BTW, I see Nudist has not come up with the name of a single Singapore company. Poor Nudist, I guess his eyes must be bloodshoot and his fingers bleeding from failing to Google up something by now. So my point about his posts was proven true. What a good way to start off the weekend.

    As for the discussion about sizes of telco corporations, I nearly fell out of my seat when Clulup claimed that Vodafone was 70% larger than Verizon. Even if Claire's chart is a little out of date, it disproves that point emphatically.

    As for who is the largest telco corporation, it is without a doubt either Verizon or SBC. Most likely it is Verizon. Claire's chart was from last year and since then SBC has purchased AT&T and Verizon has recently purchased MCI Worldcom. These purchases would clearly push them over top of Vodafone in the chart. I also kind of question what the chart represents anyway - is it just wireless or does it include LAN line business? I find it hard to believe that Vodafone could come out even near number #1 in the world chart. They don't even have a presence in the US whereas Verizon is worldwide. I concede that I don't know much about Vodafone but aren't they purely a wireless company? I thought most of Europe doesn't have an extensive land line business which is why their wireless market is so much larger than that of the US. If we were talking just wireless, I could believe Vodafone would be up there but I'm talking worldwide wireless and land line.

    BTW, I am employed by Verizon and everyone here is asking what kind of clueless person thought Vodafone was 70% larger than Verizon.
    Last edited by Bob-C; 03/11/2005 at 11:41 AM.
    ROOTING for WebOS makes me more sympathetic to Cubs fans.
  20.    #220  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-C
    BTW, I am employed by Verizon and everyone here is asking what kind of clueless person thought Vodafone was 70% larger than Verizon.
    no wonder verizon sucks so badly!

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