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  1. NRG
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    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    what your google subscription is expired?
    I think if you going to assert an opinion as fact there should be something to back this up.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I think if you going to assert an opinion as fact there should be something to back this up.
    Funny. Why should I be the first? Lots of "facts" have no backing here.

    I did some looking though and so far the ACLU hasn't stepped into this mess. My apologies. I am sure however they wont step in on behalf of Mr Summers. If they are about free speech, where are they? So even though I was wrong I was right. They are not defending free speech, they are defending those things that further their agenda.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  3. #83  
    A misread on my part and an apology extended on your statement about the political agenda.

    Branching out to other responses:

    Now, ACLU representation of moral issues is few and far between. To represent "free speech" of a group that represents NABLA or whatever the crap they call themselves and other groups of questionable integrity, and other issues that go blantly against the majority of the land and then to turn around and support a morally correct issue does not speak well for the organization. Left wing? maybe. Corrupt? yes. Can they get their way through the legislative system? HELL NO, they cannot and never will be able to. Only through a judicial system as manipulative as this one currently is, eager to make law, can they get their way. If the judicial system were able to do only what it was specifically designed to do, we would not be in the boat we are now. Of the three branches of government, the court system places itself above the rest.

    Also, what is wrong with then Ten Commandments and the basing of our judicial system on them? Must we say once again that most of the people in this country are christians? Most of the people in this country believe in the Trinity? Most of this country believes in one God? Christian, Jew, Muslim, et cetera - all believe in one God, profess the same basic preceps of human dignity, freedom and morality. None of them profess adultry and all of them support the basis of the Ten Commandments.

    Why is the christian not allowed to display traditional scenes during Christmas time on public property when Buddist can? I am confused. Very confused. If I cannot have a traditional Christmas display, then why can an abortionist have one? And don't be stupid and say it does not happen - it happens. Anti-religion has become a religion unto its own.

    The ACLU rams its philosophy and goals down the throats of the silent majority. What a way to get things done.

    Ben
  4. #84  
    On the lighter side, I deleted the Google search program on my laptop. Couldn't find what it was suppose to find 'cause I don't use too many Microsoft products. Ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I think if you going to assert an opinion as fact there should be something to back this up.
  5. NRG
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    #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Funny. Why should I be the first? Lots of "facts" have no backing here.

    I did some looking though and so far the ACLU hasn't stepped into this mess. My apologies. I am sure however they wont step in on behalf of Mr Summers. If they are about free speech, where are they? So even though I was wrong I was right. They are not defending free speech, they are defending those things that further their agenda.
    Your not the first person I have asked to provide proof. I would try and stress to all that post please use something we can reference, such as a link or something of tangible value to the argument.
  6. NRG
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    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    On the lighter side, I deleted the Google search program on my laptop. Couldn't find what it was suppose to find 'cause I don't use too many Microsoft products. Ben

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    I got this damn Yahoo thing on mine as well and I never use it.
  7. NRG
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    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Also, what is wrong with then Ten Commandments and the basing of our judicial system on them? Must we say once again that most of the people in this country are christians? Most of the people in this country believe in the Trinity? Most of this country believes in one God? Christian, Jew, Muslim, et cetera - all believe in one God, profess the same basic preceps of human dignity, freedom and morality. None of them profess adultry and all of them support the basis of the Ten Commandments.
    Look it is not a matter of which god should be displayed in public buildings it is a matter that the government should and has stated that it will be secular as to not offend one religon or another.

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Why is the christian not allowed to display traditional scenes during Christmas time on public property when Buddist can? I am confused. Very confused. If I cannot have a traditional Christmas display, then why can an abortionist have one? And don't be stupid and say it does not happen - it happens. Anti-religion has become a religion unto its own.
    I have no problem with the Jedeuo-Christian's displaying Christmas in/on/around government buildings as long as they make an effort to support all the "other" religons. Parks are another matter though. People apply for permits to display Christmas lights and such. I just don't think that the government should be endorsing one religon over another.

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    The ACLU rams its philosophy and goals down the throats of the silent majority. What a way to get things done.
    Bush does this all the time. Nevermind about that. I am not here to get into that argumnet. As far as I can tell the ACLU is sticking up for Freedom of Speech, be it gross (i.e. NAMBLA), wrong, right, or left. It is just sticking up for things american. If you think I am wrong please show me where they have not done this in the past years.
  8.    #88  
    The ACLU has NEVER done anything of value for me. It limits my freedom. It limits my RIGHT to express myself. It LIMITS my RELIGIOUS freedom. It limits my ability to think for myself. It LIMITS my RIGHT to FREE speech. It limits my rights in every possible way.
    Would you please just admit that you're taking a conservative party line on this and that you really have no frigging clue what the ACLU does.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Would you please just admit that you're taking a conservative party line on this and that you really have no frigging clue what the ACLU does.
    can you tell us what they do in specific, measureable terms then?
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    ... the government should and has stated that it will be secular as to not offend one religon or another.

    .......It is just sticking up for things american. If you think I am wrong please show me where they have not done this in the past years.
    Please show me where the government in any document says this. I expect to see secular in your source and also where it says to not offend. Thanks.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Would you please just admit that you're taking a conservative party line on this and that you really have no frigging clue what the ACLU does.
    If the ACLU is about defending rights where are they in defending Larry Simmers rights?

    They have stepped up to defend Ward Churchill. Why not Summers?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  12.    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by ttrundle
    can you tell us what they do in specific, measureable terms then?
    "The mission of the ACLU is to preserve all of these protections and guarantees:
    * Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.
    * Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.
    * Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.
    * Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs."

    For one example of this, you could try reading this thread, specifically the first post. Other than that you can read all of their cases on their website. Some other recent activity:
    ------------------------------------------------
    "WASHINGTON -- A federal judge today ruled that President Bush does not have the power to hold an American citizen as an enemy combatant. The decision by U.S. District Judge Henry F. Floyd, who was appointed to the federal bench by President Bush in 2003, came in the case of Jose Padilla, a U.S. citizen being held in a naval brig in Charleston, S.C.

    "Today's decision by one of President Bush's own appointees to the bench represents yet another blow to the Administration's misguided belief that it does not have to follow our constitutional traditions in pursuing terrorists,'' said Anthony D. Romero, ACLU Executive Director. "As Judge Floyd recognized in his opinion, President Bush's actions in the Padilla case flout the checks and balances that ensure our democracy and liberty."

    In his decision, Judge Floyd ordered Padilla to be released within 45 days."
    -----------------------------------------------
    "OMAHA -- The City of Omaha and the American Civil Liberties Union of Nebraska announced today that they have reached a settlement in the lawsuit Lubna Hussein v. City of Omaha.

    The lawsuit was filed in June 2004 on behalf of a Muslim woman who was not allowed to enter a public swimming pool last summer due to her religious clothing. The city policies in place at the time of the lawsuit did not permit anyone to enter a swimming pool unless they were wearing a bathing suit. Lubna Hussein came to the pool with her small daughters to watch them swim and did not intend to swim herself. Ms. Hussein observes Muslim dress requirements for women by wearing modest clothing and a head scarf to cover her hair. "....
    -----------------------------------------
    LITTLE ROCK, AR--Following action by the American Civil Liberties Union of Arkansas, the Beebe School District today agreed to remove stickers it had placed in science textbooks undermining the validity of evolution and introducing the religious concept of an "intelligent designer" behind the origin of life. After receiving complaints about the stickers from community members, the ACLU wrote a letter to the superintendent of the school district demanding that the stickers be removed.

    "We commend the Beebe School District for avoiding unnecessary and costly litigation in this matter," said ACLU of Arkansas Executive Director Rita Sklar. "However, we are concerned that these stickers may be present in textbooks around the state, as they are the latest attempt to undermine science and bring creationism back into public schools. We would be happy to talk to the Arkansas Department of Education to provide legal guidance on this issue." ...
    --------------------------------------------
    "INDIANAPOLIS -- In a lawsuit filed by the Indiana Civil Liberties Union, a federal district judge today ruled that the Indianapolis Police Department violated protesters’ First Amendment rights by keeping them off of city sidewalks during a demonstration in 2003.

    "Activists across the country have had good reason to believe that their First Amendment right to peacefully protest is under assault," said Ken Falk, Legal Director of the Indiana Civil Liberties Union and lead counsel in the case. "But this federal judge made it very clear that the Constitution will not allow law enforcement to muzzle free expression."

    Today’s ruling comes in a case stemming from a protest during the National Governors Association meeting in Indianapolis in August 2003. The court found that Lieutenant Michael O'Connor positioned police officers on bikes and in cars to illegally block a group of approximately 25 protesters from walking through Monument Circle, the symbolic center of Indianapolis. Saying that "peaceful marching on public sidewalks is a quintessential First Amendment activity," the court rejected the argument that possible traffic delays were a valid reason for blocking the protesters, who were non-disruptive and obeyed all traffic signals. ..."
    -----------------------------------------
    "LOS ANGELES - Under pressure from the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California, the University of California announced that it will no longer tell students studying abroad that they are prevented from participating in political demonstrations, the ACLU said today.

    The University of California revised its policy after the ACLU sent a letter warning school officials that the policy violated the First Amendment rights of students.

    "We were particularly concerned that students were being threatened with disciplinary action if they engaged in activities that are clearly protected under the First Amendment," said ACLU staff attorney Ahilan T. Arulanantham. "The new policy leaves more room for students to explore all aspects of life in a foreign country, including political life."

    The ACLU submitted the letter on behalf of Kathlyn Henderson, a 21-year-old English major at the University of California at Irvine. Henderson was sternly warned before she departed for her junior year in Lyon, France that she was not allowed to protest or participate in any political events while abroad. According to Henderson, a university official told her she could be subject to disciplinary action if she violated the policy. ..."
    -------------------------------------------------
    "NORTHAMPTON, MA -- The American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts today asked a federal district court in Springfield to protect the First Amendment rights of high school students who were disciplined by school officials for distributing candy canes with religious messages just before Christmas.

    "Students have a right to communicate ideas, religious or otherwise, to other students during their free time, before or after class, in the cafeteria, or elsewhere," said ACLU cooperating attorney Jeffrey Pyle, the main author of a friend-of-the-court brief submitted in the case.

    As a high school senior in 1993, Pyle was the plaintiff in a landmark ACLU case that established the free speech rights of secondary school students in the state. Today’s case is the first litigation in Massachusetts involving student free speech since Pyle v. South Hadley School Committee was decided in 1996. "

    ---------------------------------------------------
    Need more?
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    6th. Commandment, Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill”. Strangely enough this is a commandment despite all the punishments that require death in the New Testament and the Old Testament. How can thou not kill when thou is commanded to kill at the same time? This hypocrisy should be pointed out if the ten commandments are posted in schools, court rooms and buildings of legislation. The confusion of this commandment would surely bring capitol punishment into question.
    Actually the correct translation is Thou shalt not murder. Killing in many cases is justified.

    Here a bit on the subject. link
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  14.    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    If the ACLU is about defending rights where are they in defending Larry Simmers rights?

    They have stepped up to defend Ward Churchill. Why not Summers?
    The issue with Churchhill is more a matter of being the best person for the position he serves, President of an Educational Institution expressing a possible opinion that women are less able to excel in math and hard sciences is very relevent.

    If Churchhill taught math and said "girls aren't good at math" that would be relevent to him doing his job well.
  15.    #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Please show me where the government in any document says this. I expect to see secular in your source and also where it says to not offend. Thanks.
    Don't bother. Woof refuses to accept the obvious on this.
  16. NRG
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    #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Please show me where the government in any document says this. I expect to see secular in your source and also where it says to not offend. Thanks.
    To messers Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

    Gentlemen

    The affectionate sentiments of esteem & approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful & zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, and, in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more & more pleasing.

    Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" thus building a wall of eternal separation between Church & State. Congress thus inhibited from acts respecting religion, and the Executive authorised only to execute their acts, I have refrained from prescribing even those occasional performances of devotion, practiced indeed by the Executive of another nation as the legal head of its church, but subject here, as religious exercises only to the voluntary regulations and discipline of each respective sect,

    [Jefferson first wrote: "confining myself therefore to the duties of my station, which are merely temporal, be assured that your religious rights shall never be infringed by any act of mine and that." These lines he crossed out and then wrote: "concurring with"; having crossed out these two words, he wrote: "Adhering to this great act of national legislation in behalf of the rights of conscience"; next he crossed out these words and wrote: "Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience I shall see with friendly dispositions the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced that he has no natural rights in opposition to his social duties."]

    I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & the Danbury Baptist [your religious] association assurances of my high respect & esteem.

    Th Jefferson
    Jan. 1. 1802.

    http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpost.html
  17. NRG
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    #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Please show me where the government in any document says this. I expect to see secular in your source and also where it says to not offend. Thanks.
    You know, after reading your comment a little closer I do not believe I can produce a document with secular and offend in it. I just posted the most relevant thing to it. It is up to your interpretation.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    The issue with Churchhill is more a matter of being the best person for the position he serves, President of an Educational Institution expressing a possible opinion that women are less able to excel in math and hard sciences is very relevent.

    If Churchhill taught math and said "girls aren't good at math" that would be relevent to him doing his job well.
    I don't want to hijack your thread daT, but there are questions as to Ward Churchills credentials. So Churchill may indeed not be "the best person for the position he serves."
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  19.    #99  
    Yes, but that would not be an ACLU issue either.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yes, but that would not be an ACLU issue either.
    Of course, and I didn't mean to imply it was. I was only addressing the "Best Person" issue, which is why I said I didn't want to hijack your thread (as in with a non-ACLU subject.)
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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