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  1. #61  
    The ACLU does not have a political agenda? Gosh, you must be ... or just not able to look at its history. The ACLU is nothing short of a political agenda in itself. In addition to having a very strong political agenda, it also has a social agenda, a religious agenda, a sexual agenda, et cetera.

    Agenda for everything and agenda against the common person. The bottom line is that the ACLU is a special interest group.

    Ben

    -----------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Honestly? I'm willing to entertain the possibility that the philosophies of the ACLU may have changed. However, you can't tell me Roger N. Baldwin didn't have a political agenda.
  2. #62  
    "You are babbling. And no one is trying to get rid of your precious (whichever particular version you adhere to) 10 commandments. Just keeping the gov't out of religion endorsement."

    - dathomas

    babbling? no one is trying to remove "my precious, or whichever particular version you adhere to) 10 commandments, dathomas? wow. DO YOU EVEN READ YOUR OWN POSTS?

    http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp...2&nav=1TjDX1Jo

    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/11041154.htm

    http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/ten02.html


    like i said, the aclu tries to remove something which gives society solid guidelines to live by. THATS the issue here, not so much that the ten commandments push religion onto people

    the left cant live up to the ten commandments. they place the standard of living too high for them. it threatens the way they think they should live their lives, so they want them removed. the aclu is absurd

    tell me, how does a tablet which encourages honorable living push religion into government or into peoples` lives unjustly, dathomas? hmm?
    Last edited by treobk214; 03/06/2005 at 12:14 PM.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Free speech is under attack - sure is. Not by the government though. My complaint with Larry Summers is that he says what he wants with no consideration for those directly affected by 9-11. Liking the victims of 9-11 to the Nazis - frankly, I liken him to Clinton - a man with no morals. A man who looks and smiles at you and works hard to hide the facts.

    Ben

    --------------
    I believe your thinking of Ward Churchill. Ward Churchill made the remarks comparing 9/11 victims to Nazis. Larry Summers made remarks about women having less scientific ability than men, although I believe he was later called a Nazi by a NOW spokesperson.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  4. #64  
    My brain fart. However, aren't there a few scientific studies that do show that there are significant differences between the male and female brains? Something like size of the brain? An autopsy friend stated last week he can immediately tell the sex of a person by looking at the brain. Heck I have to look harder on some people.

    Aren't there a few scientific studies that show that men excel, on an average in some areas and women in other areas? Frankly, the statement you mention about the NOW spokesperson shows how shallow she is in the over-all scope of life. I never heard Larry Summers say anything derogatory about women. When I heard his remarks, I did not feel that he was degrading either sex, just stating a fact. Men and women are different. We think differently, we act differently. We are driven differently.

    I apologize for my jumping up and shouting my stupidity. Oh, well. Ben
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    you havent answered the question. you think the "simple fact" is that torture produces inaccurate intel. hey dathomas, prove this to me. CITE.

    i want you to tell me how you think treating the INSURGENT AND TALIBAN PRISONERS like gold will more effectively get them to talk. i really cant wait to hear your response. honestly.
    daT does have a valid point on this. Torture doesn't always produce good effects. People may tell you what they think you want to hear, just in hopes of the torture stopping. In a last ditch effort, when time is of importance, it may be the best option, but it's not always the best method to extract information. Deprivation and/or deception will often get a better effect.

    That's not to say I want to see Enemy Combatants given DirecTV, lobster dinners and a king size bed...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    The ACLU does not have a political agenda? Gosh, you must be ... or just not able to look at its history. The ACLU is nothing short of a political agenda in itself. In addition to having a very strong political agenda, it also has a social agenda, a religious agenda, a sexual agenda, et cetera.

    Agenda for everything and agenda against the common person. The bottom line is that the ACLU is a special interest group.

    Ben

    -----------------------
    Were you refering to me? I brought up Roger Baldwin specifically to point out that the ACLU did start off with a political agenda.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  7. #67  
    He is confused. Very confused. May I suggest...no, must be a democrat (what a slam).

    Anyway, I agree 100% - the Ten Commandments speaks of the positive side of life, encourages moral obligation and action. The ACLU does not support the moral obligation and action of the average person.

    I base my life and ideals on Christian values. I do not support war, but when the need is there, then the need is there. I support freedom, not communal harmony and communal equality. I support truth, honesty and justice - the very thing the Ten Commandments is about.

    Ben

    -----------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    "You are babbling. And no one is trying to get rid of your precious (whichever particular version you adhere to) 10 commandments. Just keeping the gov't out of religion endorsement."

    - dathomas

    babbling? no one is trying to remove "my precious, or whichever particular version you adhere to) 10 commandments, dathomas? wow. DO YOU EVEN READ YOUR OWN POSTS?

    http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp...2&nav=1TjDX1Jo

    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/11041154.htm

    http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/ten02.html


    like i said, the aclu tries to remove something which gives society solid guidelines to live by. THATS the issue here, not so much that the ten commandments push religion onto people

    the left cant live up to the ten commandments. they place the standard of living too high for them. it threatens the way they think they should live their lives, so they want them removed. the aclu is absurd

    tell me, how does a tablet which encourages honorable living push religion into government or into peoples` lives unjustly, dathomas? hmm?
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    My brain fart. However, aren't there a few scientific studies that do show that there are significant differences between the male and female brains? Something like size of the brain? An autopsy friend stated last week he can immediately tell the sex of a person by looking at the brain. Heck I have to look harder on some people.

    Aren't there a few scientific studies that show that men excel, on an average in some areas and women in other areas? Frankly, the statement you mention about the NOW spokesperson shows how shallow she is in the over-all scope of life. I never heard Larry Summers say anything derogatory about women. When I heard his remarks, I did not feel that he was degrading either sex, just stating a fact. Men and women are different. We think differently, we act differently. We are driven differently.

    I apologize for my jumping up and shouting my stupidity. Oh, well. Ben
    Perhaps there are studies...I can't CITE any off the top o' me noggin' though. But you are right in that people are a little thin skinned. There are differences in the sexes, certainly in strength perhaps in certain mental abilities as well. I've heard woman can multi-task better than men. Doesn't offend me. But if you were to say a woman is (in general) weaker than a man, you'd priobably get the Nazi label slapped on you.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by morrie
    everybody at some time needs the aclu. you may not realize it.
    No, everyone doesn't need them and I do realize that.
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    He is confused. Very confused. May I suggest...no, must be a democrat (what a slam).

    Anyway, I agree 100% - the Ten Commandments speaks of the positive side of life, encourages moral obligation and action. The ACLU does not support the moral obligation and action of the average person.

    I base my life and ideals on Christian values. I do not support war, but when the need is there, then the need is there. I support freedom, not communal harmony and communal equality. I support truth, honesty and justice - the very thing the Ten Commandments is about.

    Ben

    -----------------------------

    agreed, bclinger. very well said.
  11. #71  
    I never said women were weaker than men. What I did state is there are differences. If you look at over-all physical strength, then yes, men are stronger. If you look at endurance, then women endure longer. If you look at intelligence, then from what I read, we are equally as intelligent in the over-all assessment - we just have our areas of difference and strength.

    I am detailed oriented to a fault. My wife though remembers dates. I can do math far quicker than she, but she is far more sympathetic than me. Strengths? Yep. Qualities? Yep. My wife and I think differently, even after 25 years of marriage.

    Ben
  12. #72  
    The ACLU has NEVER done anything of value for me. It limits my freedom. It limits my RIGHT to express myself. It LIMITS my RELIGIOUS freedom. It limits my ability to think for myself. It LIMITS my RIGHT to FREE speech. It limits my rights in every possible way.

    If you believe that a person should not be able to make his/her own decisions, that someone else can guide better, then the ACLU is right there.

    If there is a problem, then let us address the problem through our legislative procucedures - we are by nature a nation of laws. The rights of the majority have never trampled the rights of the minority in this country.

    A few individuals should not have the power to decide for the vast majority (the group of 9). A group of lawyers with an agenda should not have the power they do - the ACLU is a special interest group and needs to be labeled as such.

    Ben

    ---------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by ttrundle
    No, everyone doesn't need them and I do realize that.
  13. NRG
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    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    no. "them" does does not refer to "us", ( unbelievable) it refers to the insurgent PRISONERS! come on dathomas! why was that so difficult to grasp?
    Actually, this is true. How would you want our troops treated if they are takin' captive?



    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    i want you to tell me how you think treating the INSURGENT AND TALIBAN PRISONERS like gold will more effectively get them to talk. i really cant wait to hear your response. honestly.
    Now, I like Sua, believe that we should not be getting these guys a room at the Four Seasons or anything like that. But, torture is ILLEGAL, evidence obtained through torture is inadmissable in a court of law, exposes our troops even more to the chance they will be tortured, plus it makes us look bad. Here is a little info on how torture undermines the "War on Terror" Tainted by Torture
  14. NRG
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    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    The ACLU does not support open speech. It supports the limitation of free speech to those who do not agree with its method of operations and philosophy. The history of the ACLU is fraught with say this, do this.
    Please back this up with fact. A link to an article of the ACLU surpressing speech will be fine.
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Please back this up with fact. A link to an article of the ACLU surpressing speech will be fine.

    No link but how about the aclu getting pissy about Mr Summers speech that women are different. Saying he cant say stuff like that is suppression in my book
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  16. NRG
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    #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    I liken him to Clinton - a man with no morals. A man who looks and smiles at you and works hard to hide the facts.
    I can think of someone else that tries to hide facts.
    Bush Opposes 9/11 Query Panel . Does this make a Bush a morals man?
  17. NRG
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    #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    No link but how about the aclu getting pissy about Mr Summers speech that women are different. Saying he cant say stuff like that is suppression in my book
    Show me a link to this. Not saying it didn't happen but I would like to see proof, or context.
    Last edited by NRG; 03/06/2005 at 01:37 PM.
  18. #78  
    aclu are a bunch of quacks. Congrats on finding one legitimate thing they've done, big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yea! Protecting the rights of those christys to play john the baptist in the park is just a publicity stunt.

    Did you EVEN READ the article starting this thread. Did you READ what the ACLU spokesperson said? Nope Ya didn't.
  19. NRG
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    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    like i said, the aclu tries to remove something which gives society solid guidelines to live by. THATS the issue here, not so much that the ten commandments push religion onto people
    These are not guidelines to a Buddhist.

    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    the left cant live up to the ten commandments. they place the standard of living too high for them. it threatens the way they think they should live their lives, so they want them removed.
    These are christian values and maybe some buddhist, muslim, hindu. etc. do NOT care to live up to those Ten Commandments, they have there own rules to live by. Right here you are pressing your religous beliefs upon someone

    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    tell me, how does a tablet which encourages honorable living push religion into government or into peoples` lives unjustly, dathomas? hmm?
    Because it is a religous document. Let's look at it shall we?

    1) I AM THE LORD THY GOD, THOU SHALT NOT HAVE strange gods BEFORE ME.
    2) THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN.
    3) THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN VAIN.

    Seems pretty religous to me. Just the first three. Also if we are to follow these shall we enforce the punishment that is to follow a breaking of these? Here is a list of the punishments to be dealt for breaking them.

    1st. Commandment, Exodus 20:3 “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”. Old Testament punishment - Deuteronomy 17:1-5 “And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heavens, which I have not commanded. Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing and shalt stone them with stones, till they die”. Deuteronomy 14:6-10, “If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is of thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. Thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God. Exodus 22:20 “He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed”. New Testament punishment - Mark 16:16 “He that believeth not, shall be damned”.

    2nd. Commandment, Exodus 20:4 “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water below.” Old Testament punishment- Deuteronomy 27: 1 5 “Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image.” That’s right kids don’t EVER draw, sculpt or paint or else god will curse you. Wanna be an artist, a photographer, take a picture of yourself or family? TOO BAD, God says no! You better drop out of art class before he smites you with boils.

    3rd. Commandment, Exodus 20:7 “Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 24:16 “And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death”, New Testament punishment - Matthew 12:32 “Whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come”. Mark 3:29 - “He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgivness, but is in danger of eternal damnation”.

    4th. Commandment, Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 31:15 “Whosoever shall work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death”. Numbers 15:32. “And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the Sabbath day…And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.”

    5th. Commandment, Exodus 20:12 “Honour thy father and thy mother”. Old Testament punishment - Exodus 21:15-17 “And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death”. More punishment - Exodus 21:17 “And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death”.

    6th. Commandment, Exodus 20:13 “Thou shalt not kill”. Strangely enough this is a commandment despite all the punishments that require death in the New Testament and the Old Testament. How can thou not kill when thou is commanded to kill at the same time? This hypocrisy should be pointed out if the ten commandments are posted in schools, court rooms and buildings of legislation. The confusion of this commandment would surely bring capitol punishment into question.

    7th. Commandment, Exodus 20:14 “Thou shalt not commit adultery”. Old Testament punishment - Leviticus 20:10 “And the man that committeth adultery with another man’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death”.

    These are just a few.
    Last edited by NRG; 03/06/2005 at 01:36 PM.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Show me a link to this.
    what your google subscription is expired?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
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