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  1.    #1  
    Just curious to what people feel here. And please, after your post...state what state you live in (or country if your not in the US) so we can consider what circumstance you're coming from.

    I've divided gun control / gun rights into 4 broad bases for discussion-sake.

    1) Americans are guaranteed right to bare arms with our Constitution. If you can take away that right, then other parts of the Constitution are right behind it (Speech, etc...). There shouldn't be any controls on defending yourself.

    2) Guns are for protection, hunting, and competition. There should be no requirements on weapons that perform these functions. Any weapons that go above and beyond that are not needed.

    3) Guns should be in the hands of the people who's job is to protect society (i.e. police, military, etc...). If there were less guns out there, then there would be a definitive drop in deaths.

    4) Guns should be outlawed completely. There may be some growing pains initially, but when all guns are gone, America will be better (this does not mean take away the military's weapons though....but the weapons would be locked away by the government and not used for personal reasons).

    Of course this goes from one extreme to the other and some people may say "well, I'm kinda like a 2.5 or 2.9995 or whatever". I myself am in between two of these categories, but will tell later after I get some responses. But where do you fall in the scheme of this and why?
  2. #2  
    No. 1 for me..."the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  3. #3  
    NO GUN CONTROL.... ask Australia about that one... Think about it, how porous our borders are, the fact that no matter what law enforcement/legislation does, criminals will continue to aquire guns. Gun Control = only criminals having guns. Would you place a sign on your front lawn that says "There are NO guns in this household"? No, you wouldn't, because you're asking for it. This is what has happened in Australia. Gun-related and violent non-gun related crimes of all kinds went through the roof when they banned guns. Look it up. Everyone is a sitting duck over there because the criminals know for a fact that the victim can't kill them in defense. But tell me again ... why are we discussing this on treocentral.com??
  4. #4  
    Well, it is the "Off-Topic" forum.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  5. #5  
    1
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    Americans are guaranteed right to bare arms
    As long as they use deodorant!
  7. #7  
    I believe that every law-abidding citizen should have the right to a gun for protection. And I will shoot any ******* that disagrees with me. <kidding>
    "Do the Chickens have large talons?" Napoleon Dynamite
  8. #8  
    You sure about the figures? Seems low for all countries listed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    Food for thoughts:
    10,527 people die each year in a handgun related incidents in the United States. This number, by far, out weighs those gun related deaths in countries such as Sweden (13), Great Britain (22), or Japan (87).
    Education.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    My question is: What can the U.S. do to reduce crime?
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    Food for thoughts:
    10,527 people die each year in a handgun related incidents in the United States. This number, by far, out weighs those gun related deaths in countries such as Sweden (13), Great Britain (22), or Japan (87). My question is: What can the U.S. do to reduce crime?
    Perhaps...
    However
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  10. Talldog's Avatar
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    #10  
    Statistics clearly show that the more restrictions there are on gun ownership, the more criminals are emboldened, as tundycentral said. It's a tough issue, but people have to be able to defend themselves. I'm not a gun owner myself, but if I lived in the city, I probably would be. In the U.S., the unfortunate truth is that the law can't protect you. I believe that the people who want to ban guns have their hearts in the right place, but they're naive about the ability of government to protect the citizenry.

    One other thing. Gun deaths might be low in Great Britain, but home invasions are approaching epidemic proportions. People don't feel safe in their own homes, and it's primarily because criminals know they're defenseless.
    Talldog
  11. #11  
    I have to say I am still on the fence on the issue of gun control, but I can cite a couple of articles for the sake of discussion. It is interesting that homocides but not suicides are affected by gun control.

    Handgun regulations, crime, assaults, and homicide. A tale of two cities. N Engl J Med 319, 1256-62 (1988).
    Abstract
    To investigate the associations among handgun regulations, assault and other crimes, and homicide, we studied robberies, burglaries, assaults, and homicides in Seattle, Washington, and Vancouver, British Columbia, from 1980 through 1986. Although similar to Seattle in many ways, Vancouver has adopted a more restrictive approach to the regulation of handguns. During the study period, both cities had similar rates of burglary and robbery. In Seattle, the annual rate of assault was modestly higher than that in Vancouver (simple assault: relative risk, 1.18; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.15 to 1.20; aggravated assault: relative risk, 1.16; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.12 to 1.19). However, the rate of assaults involving firearms was seven times higher in Seattle than in Vancouver. Despite similar overall rates of criminal activity and assault, the relative risk of death from homicide, adjusted for age and sex, was significantly higher in Seattle than in Vancouver (relative risk, 1.63; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.28 to 2.08). Virtually all of this excess risk was explained by a 4.8-fold higher risk of being murdered with a handgun in Seattle as compared with Vancouver. Rates of homicide by means other than guns were not substantially different in the two study communities. We conclude that restricting access to handguns may reduce the rate of homicide in a community.

    Firearm regulations and rates of suicide. A comparison of two metropolitan areas. N Engl J Med 322, 369-73 (1990).
    Abstract
    To investigate a possible association between firearm regulations and suicide, we compared the incidence of suicide from 1985 through 1987 in King County, Washington, with that in the Vancouver metropolitan area, British Columbia, where firearm regulations are more restrictive. The risk of death from suicide was not found to differ significantly between King County and the Vancouver area (relative risk, 0.97; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.87 to 1.09). The rate of suicide by firearms, however, was higher in King County (relative risk, 2.34; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.90 to 2.88), because the rate of suicide by handguns was 5.7 times higher there. The difference in the rates of suicide by firearms was offset by a 1.5-fold higher rate of suicide by other means in the Vancouver area. Persons 15 to 24 years old had a higher suicide rate in King County than in the Vancouver area (relative risk, 1.38; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.02 to 1.86). Virtually all the difference was due to an almost 10-fold higher rate of suicide by handguns in King County. We conclude that restricting access to handguns might be expected to reduce the suicide rate in persons 15 to 24 years old, but that it probably would not reduce the overall suicide rate.
  12.    #12  
    Alright, since I started it, I guess I should state my feelings. I'm not quite a full number 1, just a bit off. (I really don't think a person should have fully automatic machine guns but besides that, I'm for the 2nd amendment). I personally own a small arsenal (a 30-30, 30-06, 12-gauge, .22 rifle, 380 pistol, and my S&W .45 caliber 1911 model and I'll be buying a new .22 S&W pistol for target practice in the next few weeks). I'm also a CCW permit (a concealed carry permit) holder and a member of the NRA.

    Why do I have these...cause I enjoy shooting. I've always been around guns and I've never had any trouble with them. I respect them and know how to operate one. When my son is a bit older (9 months old now), I'll teach him how to shoot. When I was in the military, I LOVED BRM (basic rifle marksmanship). I really enjoy shooting. I have gone hunting before, but I'm not big into it. I shoot IDPA as a hobby (pistol competition). It something that I really enjoy. And if it came between taking somebody's life OR making my wife a widow and have my son not know who his father was, I would NOT hesitate to take the life of another person.

    I do believe that most people that want stronger gun control have their hearts in the right place but are ignorant about the subject. And a good friend of mine has said, "the worst two things for a person to have is ignorance and fear" and I think this fits this argument. There is no argument that guns have been used to kill innocent people in the past and will in the future. But the protection that guns have given FAR outweigh those deaths. There are MANY more rapes, assaults, murders that are prevented because of gun ownership. There is far less crime. Just for instance, those states that have strict gun ownership (and Canada) have a higher instance of "hot" burglaries (i.e. breaking in with the owners at home). And this has led to more assaults, rapes, etc....

    And as for the number in the previous post about gun-related deaths, I'm not sure about that number but I did read another statistic that said the VAST majority of gun related deaths were suicides.... it's just as easy to take some pills as it is to shoot yourself. And as a token, Japan (since it was chosen above) has a MUCH higher suicide rate of 20/100,000. So if this is taken out, the death gun rate falls much lower.

    To sum it up....stricter gun control has been tested in certain states/countries and has proven to be more detrimental than looser gun control.
  13. #13  
    "The Centers for Disease Control yesterday announced that the number of "gun-related deaths" had declined 25 percent since 1993, to the lowest levels since 1966."

    Is the CDC interested in "lead poisoning?"
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  14.    #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    I was sure until I read this. My numbers were taken from an earlier study.
    Wow Chick-Dance, you sure don't stay with one Avatar too long do you?! I think you've gone through 3 of them (so far) with this one thread! I guess you're the kind of girl that can't stay in one spot too long are ya?
  15. #15  
    Good stuff people... good info, here's some more... I bring this up because gun-control activists usually jump to this point first. I'm talking about accidental shootings of children in the home, usually by another child... you can very easily find a number of law enforcement resources that are quick to point out that the vast majority of these cases take place in the homes of known criminals, specifically under-educated (dumb-***) criminals. These are people that essentially disregard every other logical choice in life, why should leaving a loaded handgun in reach of a 6 year old be any different. My point is that you will find very few of these child shootings taking place in law-abiding, educated households... And again, this strongly supports the logic of allowing gun ownership in educated, non-felon type people. Brutal, Cage-Rattling Question number 1: Speaking purely in biological terms, does this equate in some way to the phenomenon of "thinning the herd" in the human species?.. sounds reprehensible & awful but...
  16. #16  
    gun control = hitting what you aim at (its a joke, lighten up)

    'an armed society is a polite society'
    Reports from states like florida that loosened restrictions on ccw (conceled carry weapons) permits, have had a marked reduction in violent crime (as i am note posting the source, this can be taken as opinion)

    i guess i am a '1'
    i do not insist anyone train,obtain and practice with a gun,
    please do not insist that i do not.

    there is alot of manipulation of data by both sides of the gun control issue. neither side is guilt free on that account. there will always be people who are passionate on this issue.
    .02 from the Republic of California
  17. #17  
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    Many opponents of gun 'rights' argue that the right to bear arms only applies to a well regulated militia. Obvioulsly that is one possible interpretation but over the years the Supreme Court has not followed that particular interpretation.

    I am for gun rights and I am also in favor of gun control (I believe you have a pre-existing right to keep and bear arms but it can be regulated by the federal government and/or state law, especially when you have committed a felony)

    IMHO people should have the right to choose whether they should bare the responsibility of owning a firearm (Its a responsibility because I believe you should take a safety class, maintain it in proper working condition including keeping it safe from children). Guns definitely are not for everyone but depending on where you live (almost anywhere nowadays), you really cant rely on the police to protect you...they are more of a reactionary force.

    I want the choice to defend myself with a firearm. Let me deal with the consequences of my actions.

    I dont want it to sound too 'redneckish' but as my father always said:

    "I'd rather be tried by 12 then buried by 6."
  18. #18  
    I choose for 2,5
    Gun for hunting, police, competition etc are fine.
    The fact you feel the need for a gun for protection if you don't live in an area where dangerous wildlife (like polarbears etc) something is wrong.
    Police should take case of security and the law, not untrained people...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by tundycentral
    NO GUN CONTROL.... ask Australia about that one... Think about it, how porous our borders are, the fact that no matter what law enforcement/legislation does, criminals will continue to aquire guns. Gun Control = only criminals having guns. Would you place a sign on your front lawn that says "There are NO guns in this household"? No, you wouldn't, because you're asking for it. This is what has happened in Australia. Gun-related and violent non-gun related crimes of all kinds went through the roof when they banned guns. Look it up. Everyone is a sitting duck over there because the criminals know for a fact that the victim can't kill them in defense. But tell me again ... why are we discussing this on treocentral.com??
    Have you ever been in Australia?
    I have, actually, lived there for 4 years and haven't seen any guncrime at all, guess I have been really lucky
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Have you ever been in Australia?
    I have, actually, lived there for 4 years and haven't seen any guncrime at all, guess I have been really lucky
    Ahhh...but how many dwarves did you toss, mate??
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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