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  1. #1641  
    This post contains NO peer-reviewed material or ANY sources whatsoever. With that said....

    Regardless of the plethora of data that is collected to support global warming or debunk it, this is what I've noticed lately:

    1) People by the millions have been freezing their butts off in China this past year;
    2) The last couple years, the hurricane seasons have been EXTREMELY mild when all the doomsayers said that global warming would give us hurricanes the likes of which we've never seen;
    3) I've had to shovel more snow (NOT rain, thank you) this year than I've had to in the last 15 years.

    Global warming may look good on paper to some, but I've not noticed any warming

    <the preceding message has been a somewhat lame and ridiculous attempt to lighten things up>
    Palm since Palm Professional --- Treo 650 (2 yrs), iPhone since 6/29/07
  2. #1642  
    tccngw
  3. #1643  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bri Guy View Post
    This post contains NO peer-reviewed material or ANY sources whatsoever. With that said....

    Regardless of the plethora of data that is collected to support global warming or debunk it, this is what I've noticed lately:

    1) People by the millions have been freezing their butts off in China this past year;
    2) The last couple years, the hurricane seasons have been EXTREMELY mild when all the doomsayers said that global warming would give us hurricanes the likes of which we've never seen;
    3) I've had to shovel more snow (NOT rain, thank you) this year than I've had to in the last 15 years.

    Global warming may look good on paper to some, but I've not noticed any warming

    <the preceding message has been a somewhat lame and ridiculous attempt to lighten things up>

    That's "climate change" not "global warming"
  4. #1644  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    If you want to try to make this a conversation about blogs and call me arrogant for insisting on peer reviewed articles, then perhaps I am being out of line here. At any rate I do not want to squelch discussion here. I will back off and let others say what they want to. If I offended anyone, I apologize.
    Cell, I for one appreciate your postings so I hope you don't stop. There is no reason why we cannot have a civilized discussion up here. I've sent you a PM when you get a chance to read it.

    KEEP POSTING AND THANKS.
  5. #1645  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter View Post
    That's "climate change" not "global warming"
    Ahhhh, true. Climate change does encompass warming AND cooling. I experienced some climate change today. The sun was finally out all day and things warmed up a bit. Spring Fever, baby!
    Palm since Palm Professional --- Treo 650 (2 yrs), iPhone since 6/29/07
  6. #1646  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Cell, I for one appreciate your postings so I hope you don't stop. There is no reason why we cannot have a civilized discussion up here. I've sent you a PM when you get a chance to read it.

    KEEP POSTING AND THANKS.
    You're right, there is absolutely no reason why we can't have a civilized discussion. Part of that civilized discussion involves knowing how to address people who are not immersed knee-deep in matters of science.

    Demanding that we only evaluate information from peer reviewed articles and dismiss all else is ridiculous. We are lay people not scientist, that means many of us will consider blogs--particularly if the information disseminated appears to be good or is drawn from KNOWN and recognized sources.

    I don't want cell to stop posting either. What I want are people who engage heavily into science matters to get off their pedestal if they are going to surf the web and converse with others.



    By the way, jaytee I appreciate your effort at clearing up any potential confusion from the link I posted. I'll be checking that over the next few days (too much food on me plate ).
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  7. #1647  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter View Post
    That's "climate change" not "global warming"
    Or maybe it's tropospheric warming and stratospheric cooling.
  8. #1648  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post

    Demanding that we only evaluate information from peer reviewed articles and dismiss all else is ridiculous.
    Never limit your sources of info. Question it, yes, but NEVER simply discard it because it is not "peer reviewed". That would be.....
  9. #1649  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter View Post
    Never limit your sources of info. Question it, yes, but NEVER simply discard it because it is not "peer reviewed".
    Yes. Never limit them. Unless of course your sources are science journals that fly in the face of your ideology - then by all means, bring on the editorials and blogs!

    BTW - didn't this whole little pissing match with Cell start because he questioned the source?
  10. #1650  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Yes. Never limit them. Unless of course your sources are science journals that fly in the face of your ideology - then by all means, bring on the editorials and blogs!

    BTW - didn't this whole little pissing match with Cell start because he questioned the source?
    Nope, he didn't question the source, he ruled it out completely based merely on the status of the source:

    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    You go ahead and trust what Michael's blog tells you (whoever Michael is), and I will instead listen to what all the top science journals and all the major scientific organizations tell me,
    I never trusted anything; I simply brought something that seemed like it may have a valid point.
    No problem should ever be solved twice.

    Verizon Treo650 W/Custom ROM
  11. #1651  
    Quote Originally Posted by DL.Cummings View Post
    Nope, he didn't question the source, he ruled it out completely based merely on the status of the source:

    I never trusted anything; I simply brought something that seemed like it may have a valid point.
    Well maybe you were both a bit thin-skinned? Your comment that preceded his response about it being "weird" may have been taken the wrong way as being dismissive. And his comments to you hurt your feelings because he was being defensive and thus dismissed your sources.

    It's all a little silly to me and the thread has gotten off track (again) from what was becoming an informative discussion about global warming. Frankly, I think I'll start a new thread about "what to do about global warming" so that those of us that believe it can discuss what to do about it. I think Hobbes tried to do that a couple of times in this thread but his suggestions never gained traction as the discussion continues to be a battle of believers and non-believers....hence the title of the thread I suppose.

    So maybe we should start a new thread and leave the questioning to those that still have questions. I for one have few - I just want to rationally discuss what to so about it.
  12. #1652  
    I'm just glad that finally the buzz phrase is being changed from "global warming" to "climate change" so that no matter what happens (warming or cooling), you're right!!!
    Palm since Palm Professional --- Treo 650 (2 yrs), iPhone since 6/29/07
  13. #1653  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter View Post
    I don't think so.
    I do.
  14. #1654  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter View Post
    tccngw
    strtlbah
  15. #1655  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter View Post
    tccngw
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    strtlbah
    Yeah, sorry about that. Editing activity gone bad
  16. #1656  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bri Guy View Post
    I'm just glad that finally the buzz phrase is being changed from "global warming" to "climate change" so that no matter what happens (warming or cooling), you're right!!!
    Well, like I said, if you want to be correct, scientifically, you should talk about Climate Change caused by Tropospheric Warming. Tropospheric Warming (down here where we are) is largely balanced by Stratospheric Cooling (up above the tropopause .. about 5-10 miles up). The balance is due to the relatively constant input from solar radiation.

  17. #1657  
    As a very frequent contributor to this thread, it might be surprising for some of you to learn that I have decided not to post here anymore, and I wanted to take a few moments to explain why.

    My original goal here was to try to get people to understand the importance of global warming and the need to do something about it. It started years ago when a majority of those posting on the thread were skeptical, but now with time, people's views have come around, so that only a small but vocal minority are in total denial on this issue.

    I used to wonder what kind of person would reject out of hand the recommendations of all the major science journals, Science, Nature, Scientific American, National Geographic, and all of the major science organizations, only to embrace obscure unverifiable blogs instead? Now I realize that those who do this are letting their own ideology override their rationality.

    Just as accumulating scientific evidence increasingly marginalized the credibility of those who carried the message for the tobacco industry in the 1960s that smoking was not harmful, so too is the credibility waning for those who are promoting the energy industry's message on global warming denial, in the face of accumulating evidence to the contrary. In each case its a conflict between the public's health versus special interests.

    So its been a great relief by me see that all of the major candidates for president, McCain, Obama, and Clinton, recognize global warming as a problem that needs to be dealt in a serious manner. Come 2009, those who are still in denial on global warming will become even more increasingly marginalized as Congress and the President work decisively together on this problem.

    Looking back, I feel good about what I have done here on the thread, that I at least tried to play a small part in trying to promote understanding of the science of global warming. And it is comforting to know that those who have been the most vocal in their denial on this issue will have to eat their words either in voting to help McCain to tackle this problem or in not voting at all. Either way is a very satisfactory scenario to me.

    I view the current attempts in the thread to disregard peer review science articles and brow beat people into treating right wing blog spin jobs as legitimate alternatives as simply acts of frustration. As is the carrying out of thinly vieled hostility towards the scientific community through name calling and casting of aspersions.

    I realize now that my responding to this does not serve any purpose, except to prolong argument ad finitum, therefore I am leaving the discussion for others here to carry on.

    To me, the argument is over.
  18. #1658  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    To me, the argument is over.
    Couldn't agree more. So come on over here http://discussion.treocentral.com/sh...62#post1415862 and lets talk about what to do about it!
  19. #1659  
    Quote Originally Posted by jaytee View Post
    Tropospheric Warming (down here where we are) is largely balanced by Stratospheric Cooling (up above the tropopause .. about 5-10 miles up). The balance is due to the relatively constant input from solar radiation.


    Some might call this "weather."
  20. #1660  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter View Post
    Some might call this "weather."
    No, we're talking climatology here... longer time base, greater areal extent.

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