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  1. #1601  
    Finally another abstract from another article which directly compares solar and human causes of climate, and again conclusions are in bold.

    Solanki, S. K., I. G. Usoskin, et al. (2004). "Unusual activity of the Sun during recent decades compared to the previous 11,000 years." Nature 431(7012): 1084-7.
    Direct observations of sunspot numbers are available for the past four centuries, but longer time series are required, for example, for the identification of a possible solar influence on climate and for testing models of the solar dynamo. Here we report a reconstruction of the sunspot number covering the past 11,400 years, based on dendrochronologically dated radiocarbon concentrations. We combine physics-based models for each of the processes connecting the radiocarbon concentration with sunspot number. According to our reconstruction, the level of solar activity during the past 70 years is exceptional, and the previous period of equally high activity occurred more than 8,000 years ago. We find that during the past 11,400 years the Sun spent only of the order of 10% of the time at a similarly high level of magnetic activity and almost all of the earlier high-activity periods were shorter than the present episode. Although the rarity of the current episode of high average sunspot numbers may indicate that the Sun has contributed to the unusual climate change during the twentieth century, we point out that solar variability is unlikely to have been the dominant cause of the strong warming during the past three decades.
  2. #1602  
    Thanks for the posts, cellmatrix. Global warming is a fascinating topic for discussion, and I do try to keep my mind open to both sides of the issue, both the experts with positions that global warming is exacerbated by human involvement and the experts with positions that humans have little to no effect on global warming.

    Meanwhile, I'm looking forward picking up my snow shovel yet AGAIN when I get home to clear the walks, driveway, etc. I've had more snow this year where I live than in the past 15 years. Needless to say, global warming is a hard sell right now around therese parts. lol
    Palm since Palm Professional --- Treo 650 (2 yrs), iPhone since 6/29/07
  3. #1603  
    Shoveling snow can't nearly be as hard as convincing me that scientists are somehow evenly split on global warming. But I admire your chutzpah Bri. Will you vote for McCain?
  4. #1604  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    Shoveling snow can't nearly be as hard as convincing me that scientists are somehow evenly split on global warming. But I admire your chutzpah Bri. Will you vote for McCain?
    Silly question - but how does an editorial from IBD qualify as anything remotely scientific? Just a snippet of their other "scientific opinions" tells you all you need to know about the fair and balanced right-wing ezine http://ibdeditorial.com/FeaturedCate...=1823&cid=1814

    Nice to see you're still up here Cell! I've enjoyed reading your posts - especially now that the mods cleaned up some of the riff raff around here.
  5. #1605  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Silly question - but how does an editorial from IBD qualify as anything remotely scientific? Just a snippet of their other "scientific opinions" tells you all you need to know about the fair and balanced right-wing ezine http://ibdeditorial.com/FeaturedCate...=1823&cid=1814

    Nice to see you're still up here Cell! I've enjoyed reading your posts - especially now that the mods cleaned up some of the riff raff around here.
    Thanks, its good to see you around too Inny. Are you back to using the treo again or still using the HTC?
  6. #1606  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    especially now that the mods cleaned up some of the riff raff around here.
    But beware....they haven't driven me off quite yet!
  7. #1607  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal View Post
    But beware....they haven't driven me off quite yet!
    LOL. I may not always agree with you Hobbes (well...actually I think I do more than I don't) but I certainly would never want to see you driven off.
  8. #1608  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    Thanks, its good to see you around too Inny. Are you back to using the treo again or still using the HTC?
    Still using the HTC Kaiser and generally loving it. The thing I hate most is the BT quality - its just plain awful. I'm still waiting for that 800w to drop so I might end up with another Treo before summer.....if Palm lasts that long.
  9. #1609  
    Ah, the mods have not yet driven me off quite yet either, my good man.
  10. #1610  
    Quote Originally Posted by moderateinny View Post
    Still using the HTC Kaiser and generally loving it. The thing I hate most is the BT quality - its just plain awful. I'm still waiting for that 800w to drop so I might end up with another Treo before summer.....if Palm lasts that long.
    Too bad Palm OS is sinking, but as opposed to starboard, once 3G and omnifocus are in place, I'l be exiting via the port bow.
  11. #1611  
    Not sure WHO I'll be voting for, cellmatrix. And as far as the article is concerned, moderateinny... I thought it was an interesting article -- it pays to be open-minded on BOTH sides, in my opinion. Wouldn't it be interesting if we're all talking about global COOLING in the next 10 - 20 years? I don't think anyone can say it's impossible. I just think there's still a lot to learn and it would be foolish to say there's no room left for discussion or learning.

    The sun is out today --- the snow and ice are melting. The snow shovel stays in the garage today. Hope everyone else is enjoying some moderate weather
    Palm since Palm Professional --- Treo 650 (2 yrs), iPhone since 6/29/07
  12. #1612  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bri Guy View Post
    Not sure WHO I'll be voting for, cellmatrix. And as far as the article is concerned, moderateinny... I thought it was an interesting article -- it pays to be open-minded on BOTH sides, in my opinion. Wouldn't it be interesting if we're all talking about global COOLING in the next 10 - 20 years? I don't think anyone can say it's impossible. I just think there's still a lot to learn and it would be foolish to say there's no room left for discussion or learning.

    The sun is out today --- the snow and ice are melting. The snow shovel stays in the garage today. Hope everyone else is enjoying some moderate weather
    speaking of learning, National Geographic has a special feature on global warming thats worth checking out:

    http://channel.nationalgeographic.co...el/sixdegrees/
  13. #1613  
    Learning about global warming from science journals rather than political pundits is certainly what all of us should be doing, but for the non-scientist, this can be technically challenging.

    Fortunately, Nature, one of the most highly respected science journals in the world, has published a series of podcasts on global warming written for the nonscientist. I have found the podcasts very informative and easy to understand, and I hope they are of use to others here as well.

    Direct podcast link to the most recent Feb 15 issue:
    http://media.nature.com/download/nat...2008-02-29.mp3

    Link to the previous podcasts from Nature on global warming.
    http://origin.www.nature.com/climate/podcast.html
  14. #1614  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    Learning about global warming from science journals rather than political pundits is certainly what all of us should be doing, but for the non-scientist, this can be technically challenging.

    Fortunately, Nature, one of the most highly respected science journals in the world, has published a series of podcasts on global warming written for the nonscientist. I have found the podcasts very informative and easy to understand, and I hope they are of use to others here as well.

    Direct podcast link to the most recent Feb 15 issue:
    http://media.nature.com/download/nat...2008-02-29.mp3

    Link to the previous podcasts from Nature on global warming.
    http://origin.www.nature.com/climate/podcast.html
    This comes across as just a little bit haughty. I dont think it is necessary to presume journal articles are just too difficult for "non-scientists" to understand. If they are useful and informative articles, just say so and leave it at that. I think by not underestimating the intelligence of one`s audience he or she would probably enjoy a better reception.
  15. #1615  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    This comes across as just a little bit haughty. I dont think it is necessary to presume journal articles are just too difficult for "non-scientists" to understand. If they are useful and informative articles, just say so and leave it at that. I think by not underestimating the intelligence of one`s audience he or she would probably enjoy a better reception.
    Strange. I took it to mean that those of us that aren't scientist may find it harder interpreting data published in such articles vs. those that are boiled down into talking points by political pundits, assuredly skewed one way or the other depending on political affiliation.
  16. #1616  
    Quote Originally Posted by logmein View Post
    This comes across as just a little bit haughty. I dont think it is necessary to presume journal articles are just too difficult for "non-scientists" to understand. If they are useful and informative articles, just say so and leave it at that. I think by not underestimating the intelligence of one`s audience he or she would probably enjoy a better reception.
    Thanks for bringing this up. The reception I have gotten here at TC over the years has been great, and I am glad to continue to give back by posting, especially on this thread. If you do not like the podcasts, please check out the scientific articles I have posted recently too.

    And by the way, I am not sure who you are going to vote for this fall, but I found this interesting video of McCain on global warming that I wanted to share.
  17. #1617  
    Interesting economic article outlining how the investment community is embracing the idea of fighting global warming. For example, some of the biggest investment funds are now asking that firms disclose their climate costs.

    Article introduction:
    "Some of the largest institutional investors in the world yesterday called on the US Congress to introduce a mandatory national policy to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by up to 90% below 1990 levels by 2050.

    It is the latest move that underlines the way business leaders have dramatically seized the environmental agenda and are now pushing politicians to tackle global warming."

    FULL ARTICLE
  18. #1618  
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  19. #1619  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    Thanks for bringing this up. The reception I have gotten here at TC over the years has been great, and I am glad to continue to give back by posting, especially on this thread. If you do not like the podcasts, please check out the scientific articles I have posted recently too.

    And by the way, I am not sure who you are going to vote for this fall, but I found this interesting video of McCain on global warming that I wanted to share.

    The McCain video highlights the position of most Americans on the matter. Clearly the climate is changing and we have to minimize, if not eliminate, our contributions to the problem. However, this is not the sole responsibility of the US, of course. China, India and many other countries which ALSO exhaust astronomical levels of pollution must be held to the same accountability in order to make this a concerted, genuine effort.
    Last edited by logmein; 02/20/2008 at 12:44 PM.
  20. #1620  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter View Post
    $
    exactly!

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