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  1. #861  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Great, Seems like all of us are in agreement on some things.

    1.) The scientific consensus is that global warming is real, and that it is caused by us.
    It's important to be clear and specific.

    The consensus is that global warming is real, and that it is likely caused by us.

    There is no consensus on all the implications of global warming. Temperatures rising by X degrees in 100 years, causing glaciers to melt and raising the sea-level by Y meters, hurricanes becoming more extreme, etc. (Refer to the paragraph struck by the "Exxon lobbyist.") There's lots of speculation and disagreement there.
  2. #862  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    It's important to be clear and specific.

    The consensus is that global warming is real, and that it is likely caused by us.

    There is no consensus on all the implications of global warming. Temperatures rising by X degrees in 100 years, causing glaciers to melt and raising the sea-level by Y meters, hurricanes becoming more extreme, etc. (Refer to the paragraph struck by the "Exxon lobbyist.") There's lots of speculation and disagreement there.
    lol, you must be kidding me, right back where he started

    no wonder this thread is 800 posts long
  3. #863  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    You've falsely accused me of putting words in your mouth three times. That's three more lies.
    Samkim, I still think you put words in my mouth and then accuse me of lying. But hey, at least you say it with a smile, and no one can deny your zeal and enthusiasm. Hell, I cannot be mad at you. But like Blaze, I am getting a headache. Anyway, have a happy fourth
  4. #864  
    You too Blaze, have a happy fourth and let's both look forward to a better land that we love for the future.
  5. #865  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    You too Blaze, have a happy fourth and let's both look forward to a better land that we love for the future.
    You too Cell. God bless the USA.

    But hey, I saw that projection map, my house will be oceanfront if the ice caps melt. Who am I to stand in the way of progress. I guess long live W, and Exxon 2 :P
  6. #866  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Samkim, I still think you put words in my mouth and then accuse me of lying. But hey, at least you say it with a smile, and no one can deny your zeal and enthusiasm. Hell, I cannot be mad at you. But like Blaze, I am getting a headache. Anyway, have a happy fourth
    Thanks. Glad we could end on a positive note. Enjoy.
  7. #867  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    Thanks. Glad we could end on a positive note. Enjoy.
    yes I am glad too, I will enjoy, thanks.
  8. #868  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    You too Cell. God bless the USA.

    But hey, I saw that projection map, my house will be oceanfront if the ice caps melt. Who am I to stand in the way of progress. I guess long live W, and Exxon 2 :P
    Thanks Blaze, with me you know you are preaching to the choir. I have many complaints also, especially with this new trend of looking at science as an adversary rather than an asset, but perhaps this is the time to be optimistic for the future.
  9. #869  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    Do you think it's okay to lie to promote your politics?
    No.
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    How about, they [the Bush administration] believe the claims [about global warming] are exaggerated?
    Does it not strike you as odd how the same group of people jumped to a war in Iraq (an oil-rich country in an oil-rich region) without worrying in the least about "exaggerated claims"?

    Were you similarly sceptical about the WMD in Iraq as about the evidence for global warming? What makes me think you were one of those who believed in the WMD story and supported action based on dubious evidence?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  10. #870  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    No.
    Does it not strike you as odd how the same group of people jumped to a war in Iraq (an oil-rich country in an oil-rich region) without worrying in the least about "exaggerated claims"?

    Were you similarly sceptical about the WMD in Iraq as about the evidence for global warming? What makes me think you were one of those who believed in the WMD story and supported action based on dubious evidence?
    Lol, can you imagine getting a pen and hacking up the NIB with words like "not", "may be", "thought to have", "not really sure", "according to this random ahole we found", and "the one guy we tortured said...".

    hehe
  11. #871  


    Does anyone know where I can find a version of this chart that is inverted, with the most recent data on the right? And one that shows both temperature and CO2 levels side by side, as well as human population? Similar to the one from the Al Gore documentary.
  12. #872  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Does anyone know where I can find a version of this chart that is inverted, with the most recent data on the right? And one that shows both temperature and CO2 levels side by side, as well as human population? Similar to the one from the Al Gore documentary.
    You can find most of that here.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  13. #873  
    Study links increase in wildfires to global warming: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...lobal_warming/

    By Naila Moreira, Globe Correspondent | July 7, 2006

    Global warming may be largely to blame for the increasingly destructive wildfires in the Western United States in the last two decades, new research suggests.

    Longer and fiercer wildfire seasons since 1986 are closely associated with warmer summer temperatures, earlier arrival of spring, and earlier snowmelts in the West, scientists reported yesterday in the online edition of the journal Science.

    The new findings suggest that the most up-to-date forest management methods may be insufficient to slow the uptick in large forest fires. Most climate researchers believe that global teperatures will continue to warm as human activity increases the concentration of heat-trapping greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide, in the atmosphere.

    ``Local policies to manage forests are not going to be a magic bullet, they're not going to be successful in reversing this trend," said Anthony L. Westerling of the Scripps Institution of Oceanography , the study's lead author.

    The study adds fuel to a debate on whether global warming causes extreme weather-related events across the United States, including last year's powerful hurricane season. Two papers published last year in the journals Nature and Science linked climate change to increases in hurricane intensity since 1970. Also, climate models suggest that both severe droughts and very heavy rain events in the United States will become more frequent as temperatures warm.

    "Many of the changes in frequency and severity of extreme weather events that we're seeing now are exactly what we expect with increased greenhouse gas emissions," said climatologist Noah Diffenbaugh of Purdue University.
    Original Paper in the online-edition of SCIENCE:
    Warming and Earlier Spring Increases Western U.S. Forest Wildfire Activity

    A. L. Westerling(1,2*), H. G. Hidalgo (1), D. R. Cayan (1,3), T. W. Swetnam (4)

    1 Scripps Institution of Oceanography, La Jolla, CA 92093, USA.
    2 University of California, Merced, CA 95344, USA.
    3 US Geological Survey, La Jolla, CA 92093, USA.
    4 Laboratory of Tree-Ring Research, University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ 85721,
    USA.

    Western United States forest wildfire activity is widely
    thought to have increased in recent decades, but
    surprisingly, the extent of recent changes has never been
    systematically documented. Nor has it been established to
    what degree climate may be driving regional changes in
    wildfire. Much of the public and scientific discussion of
    changes in western United States wildfire has focused
    rather on the effects of 19th and 20th century land-use
    history. We compiled a comprehensive database of large
    wildfires in western United States forests since 1970 and
    compared it to hydro-climatic and land-surface data.
    Here, we show that large wildfire activity increased
    suddenly and dramatically in the mid-1980s, with higher
    large-wildfire frequency, longer wildfire durations, and
    longer wildfire seasons.
    The greatest increases occurred in
    mid-elevation, Northern Rockies forests, where land-use
    histories have relatively little effect on fire risks, and are
    strongly associated with increased spring and summer
    temperatures and an earlier spring snowmelt.

    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/rapidpdf/1128834.pdf
    Last edited by clulup; 07/07/2006 at 03:34 AM.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  14. #874  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Study links increase in wildfires to global warming: http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...lobal_warming/

    Original Paper in the online-edition of SCIENCE:
    It could be god's punishment for homosexuality.
  15. #875  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    It could be god's punishment for homosexuality.
    Or god's punishment for being the worst polluter and caring the least...?
    Last edited by clulup; 07/07/2006 at 10:39 AM.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  16. #876  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    It could be god's punishment for homosexuality.
    Yes? And homosexuality is god's punishment for what?
  17. #877  
    kick of an old topic.
    The 'Metro' newspaper today had an article on the frontpage today that the result of a study on global warming in the UK proved that it was extremely likely that global warming was caused by human action.
    They monitored the temperature data of the last 350 years and apperantly there was a clear link between the burning of fossil fuels and temperature.
    http://www.metro.co.uk/home/article....4&in_page_id=1
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  18. #878  
    Naked Science had a new episode that was made just a little while ago this year about Global warming. They divided the show basically into two topics.......Earth's natural history of climate change......and man's effect on climate change. I think one cannot be looked at with ignoring the other.

    They showed that very recent studies covering the last 300,000 years have shown VERY rapid swings in climate have occurred and more rapidly and more often than ever previously thought. They showed ice core studies that indicated 2 decades to initiate a climate change for a local and/or massive ice age. There were also very long and gradual swings in and out of such dramatic climate changes. They said that the latest research is starting to show that the last 10,000 years of constant "boring climate changes" is not the norm for the earths history, but the exception.

    They also went on to show the research in the effect that man is having on the environment and that now, we maybe the major source for initiating climate change instead of mother nature. They never answered the question posed if this was more of man helping mother nature speed along what would have happened anyways or changing the course of the historical swings that they have been discovering.

    Everything above is simply relaying what the show presented. My personal opininion.....and I have already admitted several times in this thread that I am not an expert....is that nature does have drastic climate swings historically. Some fast and some slow. I also strongly believe that we have a direct impact on our climate and the course it may be taking.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 09/19/2006 at 07:08 PM.
  19. #879  
    Now even the energy companies are admitting it.
    Quote Originally Posted by BP website
    The emerging consensus is that climate change is, at least in part, linked to the production and consumption of carbon based fuel
    http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?...tentId=7007103

    Reminds me of when the cigarette companies, in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence, finally had to admit there was a link between tobacco and cancer.
  20. #880  
    I agree we have a major impact. But I also find the recent discoveries fascinating as well. If they found dramatic climate changes that initiated ice ages within 20 years with nothing more than the natual course of nature, wouldn't you be interested as well?
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 09/21/2006 at 04:02 PM.

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