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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    And even better is that it's a bit dirty, could be dirtier, but at least it's not a mall crawler!!
    at least we agree on that!
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  2.    #42  
    Nothing is wrong with any of these things. What's wrong is the US gets blamed for everything. Why wouldn't we all want all of the above. As soon as the rest of the world can stop blaming the US for everything and look in the mirror, the sooner we'll see results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    Let’s assume that “global warming” is a farce and a made-up scheme that was invented by zealous anti capitalists to fight the ongoing industrial revolution (or thereafter). What’s wrong with more efficient cars that produce fewer gasses? What’s wrong with industries that omit less carbon dioxide into the atmosphere? And for that matter, what’s wrong with having more trees around and animals and glaciers and clean water?
  3.    #43  
    Too bad you don't speak for the rest of the world!

    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    I do blame China, and Russia too, and india and canada and Holland and the UK etc. etc. we all play our part in this..
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    Let’s assume that “global warming” is a farce and a made-up scheme that was invented by zealous anti capitalists to fight the ongoing industrial revolution (or thereafter). What’s wrong with more efficient cars that produce fewer gasses? What’s wrong with industries that omit less carbon dioxide into the atmosphere? And for that matter, what’s wrong with having more trees around and animals and glaciers and clean water?
    What is wrong with more people? That is the obvious trade-off.

    I am confident that across generations and borders, we will do what is good for us. We will not intentionally poison ourselves or our grandchildren. However, I want the choices to be made collectively rather than by fiat of any elite. We have seen such elites in the twentieth century. In the name of all kinds of abstract goods, and with the consent of many of us, they culled millions of people from the population and stifled the birth of others.

    I do not trust elites; not scientific elites or bureaucratic ones. I do not trust governments; they tend to power and corruption. The Kyoto Treaty is an example of elites trying to accomplish by treaty, in the name of an abstract good, what they could not accomplish with legislation, or even with the consent of the governed.

    There is nothing wrong with the things that you mention. However, they are not free. We want to ensure that the costs are born equitably and not imposed on some of us by others of us.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Too bad you don't speak for the rest of the world!
    Uhm, isnt that what kyoto is about? to make global agreements on these issues?
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  6. #46  
    "You obviously have no clue about socialism " -toolkit

    toolkit, you're absolutely clueless. and you're a mod? that was a quote from a news article! incidentally, tool, you obviously have no clue about science. what a poor showing from a moderator, toolkit, seriously. I would expect more out of you.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    What is wrong with more people? That is the obvious trade-off.

    I am confident that across generations and borders, we will do what is good for us. We will not intentionally poison ourselves or our grandchildren. However, I want the choices to be made collectively rather than by fiat of any elite. We have seen such elites in the twentieth century. In the name of all kinds of abstract goods, and with the consent of many of us, they culled millions of people from the population and stifled the birth of others.

    I do not trust elites; not scientific elites or bureaucratic ones. I do not trust governments; they tend to power and corruption. The Kyoto Treaty is an example of elites trying to accomplish by treaty, in the name of an abstract good, what they could not accomplish with legislation, or even with the consent of the governed.

    There is nothing wrong with the things that you mention. However, they are not free. We want to ensure that the costs are born equitably and not imposed on some of us by others of us.
    Those 2 don't have to contradict each other..
    You can have a clean environment AND more people, problem is people in general choose the easy way, which is normaly the not enviromentally friendly one..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Uhm, isnt that what kyoto is about? to make global agreements on these issues?
    It's hard to make a global commitment when large contibutors (China, India, Mexico) are exempt.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    "You obviously have no clue about socialism " -toolkit

    toolkit, you're absolutely clueless. and you're a mod? that was a quote from a news article! incidentally, tool, you obviously have no clue about science. what a poor showing from a moderator, toolkit, seriously. I would expect more out of you.
    My political views are seperate from my moderating tasks.
    On this forum I can wear 2 hats, the personal one, and the moderator one.
    In the off topic I wear the personal one 99% of the time.
    But you allready know that didnt you?

    As for your knowledge of socialism, you clearly mix up communism and socialism. But don't worry a lot of people make that mistake. Especially in the US. Same thing that a lot of non-americans think all americans are guntoting cowboys...

    Do they teach what all the "ism's" are all about in highschool in the US?
    They did in my so I actually know what the theory behind socialism, communism, fascism, capitalism etc. is..

    If you looked a bit better at history you would even see that communist countries (which you are refering to) have a shocking environment record...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    It's hard to make a global commitment when large contibutors (China, India, Mexico) are exempt.
    I agree, that is a mayor problem of it.. but what can you do? invade china over it? Boycotting them would be a good idea, but that means a lot of the products we use get more expensive. Most people care more of today than the rest of their lives... instant gratification rules.. and I fear it will be our downfall
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  11. #51  
    "but you allready know that didnt you?

    As for your knowledge of socialism, you clearly mix up communism and socialism."


    I will repeat - what was written in that post was NOT MY TAKE ON SOCIALISM, it was PART of a news article which I didn't author - simply quoted. you are making comments regarding THAT author's view on socialism, not mine. shouldn't you see this simply by looking at the title and author of the quote therein?

    the point of quoting this article was to centrally highlight the fact that global warming is mere speculation, not a conclusion based upon sound scientific proof.
    period.
  12.    #52  
    I'll re-phrase...too bad the rest of the world doesn't share your view that pollution is more than the fault of the USA. It's many of the up and coming nations and other powerful nations that blame us for everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Uhm, isnt that what kyoto is about? to make global agreements on these issues?
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    And for that matter, what’s wrong with having more trees around and animals and glaciers and clean water?
    We have all of that...right here in Colorado.

    "Established on January 26, 1915, Rocky Mountain National Park is a living showcase of the grandeur of the Rocky Mountains. With elevations ranging from 8,000 feet in the wet, grassy valleys to 14,259 feet at the weather-ravaged top of Long's Peak, a visitor to the park has opportunities for countless breathtaking experiences and adventures.
    Elk, mule deer, moose, bighorn sheep, black bears, coyotes, cougars, eagles, hawks and scores of smaller animals delight wildlife-watchers of all ages. Wildflower-lovers are never disappointed in June and July when the meadows and hillsides are splashed with botanical color. Autumn visitors can relax among the golden aspens or enjoy the rowdier antics of the elk rut (mating season).

    359 miles of trail offer endless opportunities to hikers, backpackers and horseback riders. Fly fishers, bird-watchers and photographers discover the splendor that they traveled so far to find. During the winter, snowshoers and cross-country skiers revel in the white-blanketed tranquility of meadows and forests.

    60 peaks rising above 12,000 feet challenge intrepid hikers and climbers. Anyone visiting between Memorial Day and late autumn can see many of these peaks eye-to-eye by driving over Trail Ridge Road. Topping out at 12,183 feet, this is the highest, continuous, paved road in the United States.
    Plan some time to acclimate to the high altitude."

    I guess if you want animals in NYC there is always the zoo.

    Well behaved women rarely make history
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    How cute, A TJ girl! And even better is that it's a bit dirty, could be dirtier, but at least it's not a mall crawler!!
    I never wash it in the winter, not much in the spring, a few times in the summer and not that much in the fall.

    But in the summer with the bikini top on...I luv it!
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    There is nothing wrong with the things that you mention. However, they are not free. We want to ensure that the costs are born equitably and not imposed on some of us by others of us.
    Wow! You da bomb!
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    a lot of non-americans think all americans are guntoting cowboys......
    YeeHaaa

    I would bet that the cowboys in NYC have more guns then the whole state of Colorado
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    I agree, that is a mayor problem of it.. but what can you do? invade china over it?
    No..I think you are on to something here. Get all the mayors in China and India and other places and get a consensus. Then act on that. Ohh..thats what they did with Kyoto. But they let all the polluters off the hook.

    At least the US was honest enough to say..."No way Jose."
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  18. #58  
    " gun-toting cowboys?"

    - toolkit

    I guess most of those non-americans are pretty ignorant, aren't they?

    just when you think you've seen it all...unreal. this is a MOD talking folks!
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    " gun-toting cowboys?"

    - toolkit

    I guess most of those non-americans are pretty ignorant, aren't they?

    just when you think you've seen it all...unreal. this is a MOD talking folks!
    Maybe he was watching Urban Cowboy on ACM
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    .....Do they teach what all the "ism's" are all about in highschool in the US?
    They did in my so I actually know what the theory behind socialism, communism, fascism, capitalism etc. is.....
    No. We do not. We do not teach anarchism, fundamentalism, establishmentarianism, environmentalism. colonialism, or imperialism either. I doubt that many of us can define all of these, much less distinguish each from the others. [We do teach mercantilism in American History as an explanation for the diissolution of the bond with England.]

    I think most of us know at some level that all of the other ideologies have been important in our history but we are not sure how. We do not seem to understand that ideology, reasoning from ends, is dangerous.

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