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  1. #421  
    YES, that's exactly it, very well put.

    Global warming is a fact by any definition of fact you would use in your life. That the global warming we have experienced over the past 20 or 50 or 150 years is - to a large proportion - due to emission of greenhouse gasses, is true to a high degree of certainty. If a disease was diagnosed in you with the same degree of certainty, your doctor would recommend action, as would 95% or more of the colleagues you may consult for a second, third, etc. opinion.
  2. #422  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    If a disease was diagnosed in you with the same degree of certainty, your doctor would recommend action, as would 95% or more of the colleagues you may consult for a second, third, etc. opinion.
    The analogy between diagnosis and treatment of the cause of global warming and the diagnosis and treatment of a disease is close but not completely the same:

    If multiple doctors say its very likely you have cancer, but with the right medicine, you can fight it, you can either

    1) give the medicine a try
    2) you can say, well you can't tell me with 100% certainty I have cancer so I do not want to spend the money, I will take my chances
    3) keep shopping for doctors until I finally find someone who tells me what I want to hear, and just ignore all of the rest.

    There is a right of a patient to make his or her personal health decisions and receive the consequences for it. But with global warming, the decision has bearing on the rest of the world and those living in it, very different from an individual's personal health situation.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 03/03/2005 at 06:56 PM.
  3. #423  
    Anybody see this article from Space.com? Rather intersting stuff going on out there...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  4.    #424  
    Great!

    Does this count against our annual emissions?
  5. #425  
    http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae571.cfm
    answers our earlier question about the world jump day..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  6. #426  
    Read "The Complete *****'s Guide to Weather". It'll clear up the global warming debate in plain language for anyone objective enough to stick with it.

    Sorry if it was mentioned before; I don't have time to read the whole thread.

    Todd/Indy
  7. hsk
    hsk is offline
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    #427  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    "In a direct democracy," as Hansjoerg Seiler, law professor at the University of Lucerne, explains, "all people have equal rights and therefore all opinions are of the same value. There are no 'right' or 'wrong' opinions, but simply different opinions."
    I don't think any country has a direct democracy, they generally have a representative democracy. 50% of any population is of below average intelligence, and even if they weren't, most couldn't be bothered to research any given issue sufficiently to have an informed opinion.

    I think everyone should try to do their bit to reduce waste, pollution, greenhouse gas emissions, but when you get right down to it, how much CO2 does your average forest fire or volcanic eruption produce relative to your average few thousand SUV's? We overestimate our significance on the global scale...
  8. #428  
    Quote Originally Posted by hsk
    I don't think any country has a direct democracy, ..
    Swisstown claims to have a direct democracy. They keep "undesirables" from voting by not even allowing them to become citizens.

    http://www.swissworld.org/dvd_rom/en...emocracy_2004/
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  9. #429  
    Sounds like a good plan to me. I wouldn't mind a short screening exam to see if a potential voter is intelligent enough to assume the responsibility, either.

    Todd/Indy
  10. #430  
    Quote Originally Posted by tbhausen
    Sounds like a good plan to me. I wouldn't mind a short screening exam to see if a potential voter is intelligent enough to assume the responsibility, either.

    Todd/Indy
    Move to Swisserville
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  11. bytor's Avatar
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    #431  
    As usual, the information would be at your fingertips:

    "The current scientific consensus is that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribu...climate_change

    http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/[/QUOTE]

    Unfortunately, a 50 year snapshot is considerably inaccurate and irresponsible if one is to assume (which I do not) that the earth is millions of years in age.

    Gregg
  12.    #432  
    I wouldn't expect you to read all 22 pages of this thread, but about every google searched thread has been linked. And you probably had a typo there, but the earth isn't just millions of years old it's billions of years old. Sort of like the old McDonald's signs!

    Quote Originally Posted by bytor
    As usual, the information would be at your fingertips:

    "The current scientific consensus is that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attribu...climate_change

    http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/

    Unfortunately, a 50 year snapshot is considerably inaccurate and irresponsible if one is to assume (which I do not) that the earth is millions of years in age.

    Gregg
    Last edited by Advance The Man; 03/17/2005 at 08:20 AM.
  13. #433  
    And by the way Bytor...how's Snowdog?
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  14. #434  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Move to Swisserville
    I like it fine here in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave (whether I think morons vote far too often or not) thank-you-very-much.

    Also, regarding "scientific consensus", never assume its unbiased. Political agendas are at play here and research grants are always being sought...

    Todd/Indy
  15. #435  
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  16. #436  
    Quote Originally Posted by bytor
    Unfortunately, a 50 year snapshot is considerably inaccurate and irresponsible if one is to assume (which I do not) that the earth is millions of years in age.

    Gregg
    So what do you assume then, that earth is thousands of years old, or billions of years (say four or five billion or so)?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  17. #437  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    So what do you assume then, that earth is thousands of years old, or billions of years (say four or five billion or so)?
    ya I wanna know the answer to this one too.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
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  18. #438  
    Jeopardy theme plays in the background

    ...hmmmm, what is...4.5 billion years, Alex?
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  19. #439  
    thought this was interesting:


    Put your thinking caps on over Global Warming
    A study by the National Center for Atmospheric Research indicates that even if greenhouse gas levels remained as they are today, it still would not help the outcome. North America could face excessive heat waves and swarms of insects that could decimate crops.

    The study results, published today in the journal Science, indicate that even if greenhouse gas levels had stabilized five years ago, global temperatures would still increase by about half a degree by the end of the century and sea level would rise some 11 centimeters.
    The study author Gerald Meehl of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) in Boulder, Colo. and his NCAR colleagues ran two coupled climate models that link major components of our planet's climate and incorporate their interactions.
    The researchers then analyzed scenarios in which greenhouse gases continue to accumulate in the atmosphere at low, moderate and high rates. The highest rates of accumulation led to model results that included a 3.5 degrees Celsius increase in global temperatures and a 30 centimeter rise in global sea level.
    19 March, 2005 by roger
  20. #440  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    thought this was interesting:


    Put your thinking caps on over Global Warming
    A study by the National Center for Atmospheric Research indicates that even if greenhouse gas levels remained as they are today, it still would not help the outcome. North America could face excessive heat waves and swarms of insects that could decimate crops.

    The study results, published today in the journal Science, indicate that even if greenhouse gas levels had stabilized five years ago, global temperatures would still increase by about half a degree by the end of the century and sea level would rise some 11 centimeters.
    The study author Gerald Meehl of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) in Boulder, Colo. and his NCAR colleagues ran two coupled climate models that link major components of our planet's climate and incorporate their interactions.
    The researchers then analyzed scenarios in which greenhouse gases continue to accumulate in the atmosphere at low, moderate and high rates. The highest rates of accumulation led to model results that included a 3.5 degrees Celsius increase in global temperatures and a 30 centimeter rise in global sea level.
    19 March, 2005 by roger
    This is a classic attempt to mislead through selective cut and paste without giving the link.

    For everyone's information, I have linked a full article on these findings and give the first few paragraphs, the key points roger "forgot" to include are bolded.


    Quote Originally Posted by Reuters
    Even if people stopped pumping out carbon dioxide and other pollutants tomorrow, global warming would still get worse, two teams of researchers reported on Thursday.

    Sea levels will rise more than they have already risen, worsening the damage caused by extreme high tides and storm surges, and droughts, heat waves and storms will become more severe, the climate experts predicted.

    That makes immediate action to slow global warming even more vital, the teams at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Colorado report in the journal Science.

    "Even if we stabilize greenhouse gas concentrations, the climate will continue to warm, and there will be proportionately even more sea level rise," said the NCAR's Gerald Meehl, who led one of the two studies.

    "The longer we wait, the more climate change we are committed to in the future."

    Virtually no one disagrees human activity is fueling global warming, and a global treaty signed in Kyoto, Japan, aims to reduce polluting emissions. But the world's biggest polluter, the United States, has withdrawn from the 1997 treaty, saying its provisions would hurt the U.S. economy.
    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...t_climate_dc_1

    I encourage everyone to educate themselves further about global warming. Read the science yourself:

    http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...en&btnG=Search

    http://www.pewclimate.org/global-warming-basics/
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 03/20/2005 at 09:52 AM.

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