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  1. #401  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Interesting find, and an additional very clear scientific statement pointing to man-made global warming, thanks for posting:

    "Lead researcher John Smol of Queen's University said the study should put the final nail in the coffin of arguments that climate change is not happening."
    Ahh...but I don't think any of us, well, certainly not myself, are arguing it isn't happening.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  2. #402  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Ahh...but I don't think any of us, well, certainly not myself, are arguing it isn't happening.
    Yes, but you are aware of the fact that according to the report you quoted, the warming started "when the Industrial Revolution kicked off widespread burning of fossil fuels"?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  3. #403  
    Ok asked my manager and he said the clulups theory that the effect gets evened out is probably true.
    However he said the thing might slow down the rotation of the earth a bit...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  4. #404  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    However he said the thing might slow down the rotation of the earth a bit...
    That seems to be the case: also due to the tides, the rotation of earth slows down by about 0.0016 seconds each century, so days are getting longer and the number of days per year smaller.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  5. #405  
    Quote Originally Posted by jpahl
    Isn't that because some angular momentum is being transfered from the earth to the moon (which is gradually getting further away). Jumping up and down would have no net impact on angular momentum.

    The only way you can make a difference (as far as I see it is) is net movement of people either to the equator (to slow the earth down) or away from the equator (to speed it up).
    It is the friction of the tidal "bulges" (ocean water) that cause the rotation of earth to slow down (according to
    this site). So if the oceans can do it, I guess somehow also people can do it (in theory). If I got the site right, it is also the tides which cause the moon to increase its orbit (no time to check, though ).
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  6. #406  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Yes, but you are aware of the fact that according to the report you quoted, the warming started "when the Industrial Revolution kicked off widespread burning of fossil fuels"?
    Yes, I am aware. Understand that there comes a point in a debate that it is obvious opinions won't change. So, I'm posting things I come across. No matter the spin, or whose side it favors. I was searching for something totally unrelated to this thread and saw this. Since it was about the topic, thought it may be of interest...
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  7.    #407  
    Amy doesn't pretend to be a scientist. She simply showed where this report that you appear to refer to several times in this thread is flawed. It self contrdicts itself. It appears to say man is to blame and then says there is no proof that man is to blame. It also states that temperatures are going up and then says it's hard to predict temperatures may go up or down.

    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Does it not strike you as odd that the best source speaking against global warming seems to be the unknown blogger Amy Ridenour? What type of information could possibly make you consider global warming due to greenhouse gas emissions could be a fact?
  8. #408  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Amy doesn't pretend to be a scientist. She simply showed where this report that you appear to refer to several times in this thread is flawed. It self contrdicts itself. It appears to say man is to blame and then says there is no proof that man is to blame. It also states that temperatures are going up and then says it's hard to predict temperatures may go up or down.
    I am a conservative and Amy Ridenhour is so unbiased, I believe everything she blogs

    All of the climate scientist societies in the world, what do they know about writing science articles and interpreting data? And that stupid Science journal, how did it get to be the top science journal in the world when it cannot even recognize that their article self contradicts itself AND is flawed.

    Thank God Amy has exposed this decade of climate research liberal conspiracy. I think the journal Science is going to go out of business now that Riddenour has exposed their dirty little secret

    Last edited by cellmatrix; 03/02/2005 at 03:29 PM.
  9. #409  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    I am a conservative and Amy Ridenhour is so unbiased, I believe everything she blogs

    All of the climate scientist societies in the world, what do they know about writing science articles and interpreting data? And that stupid Science journal, how did it get to be the top science journal in the world when it cannot even recognize that their article self contradicts itself AND is flawed.

    Thank God Amy has exposed this decade of climate research liberal conspiracy. I think the journal Science is going to go out of business now that Riddenour has exposed their dirty little secret.

    Weather (pun intended ) or not she may be biased does not discount her if there are indeed inconsistencies does it? Throw out any conspiracy, do you know there aren't any, or would it be fair to say that because she is a "Conservative", her story is baseless?

    I'm trying to be neutral here. Either she is right, or she is wrong. Politics shouldn't matter.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  10.    #410  
    It doesn't take a conservative, a blogger or a liberal to point out blatant inconsistencies.

    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    I am a conservative and Amy Ridenhour is so unbiased, I believe everything she blogs

    All of the climate scientist societies in the world, what do they know about writing science articles and interpreting data? And that stupid Science journal, how did it get to be the top science journal in the world when it cannot even recognize that their article self contradicts itself AND is flawed.

    Thank God Amy has exposed this decade of climate research liberal conspiracy. I think the journal Science is going to go out of business now that Riddenour has exposed their dirty little secret

  11. #411  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Weather (pun intended ) or not she may be biased does not discount her if there are indeed inconsistencies does it? Throw out any conspiracy, do you know there aren't any, or would it be fair to say that because she is a "Conservative", her story is baseless?

    I'm trying to be neutral here. Either she is right, or she is wrong. Politics shouldn't matter.
    the previous post was simply a joke, a variation on Advances "I am a liberal"

    I did not mean any disrespect for Amy Riddenhour, by the way.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 03/02/2005 at 03:48 PM.
  12. #412  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    the previous post was simply a joke, a variation on Advances "I am a liberal"
    I got the joke. Although I thought there was some truth to it as well. Actually, it was more Clulup that discounted the blog. I'm getting you two confused!!!

    Sorry bout that!
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  13. #413  
    OK, no disrespect to you or advance or anyone else here.

    I think it is just a basic difference of opinion that we will never resolve.

    I tend to trust the consensus of climate scientists across the world and the most respected science journal in the world, and you guys don't.

    I will not go into the reasons why I think that is the case. We have been over this multiple times.

    I enjoy hearing the conservative view and discussing things, but in this case I think we have come to an impasse.
  14. #414  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    OK, no disrespect to you or advance or anyone else here.

    I think it is just a basic difference of opinion that we will never resolve.

    I tend to trust the consensus of climate scientists across the world and the most respected science journal in the world, and you guys don't.

    I will not go into the reasons why I think that is the case. We have been over this multiple times.

    I enjoy hearing the conservative view and discussing things, but in this case I think we have come to an impasse.
    The Ol' "Agree to disagree..." I said the same thing in post 414.

    I don't totally dismiss these findings. However, I just think there are so many variables, that it's just too hard to predict anything. I can't even get an accurate weather report for the next ten days half the time! (I know, oranges to tangerines, but hopefully you get the point.) I don't think they're quacks (nor you guys), just skeptical is all I am. You are more trusting. I can handle that.

    But it's been a good ride!

    Lastly, my opinions are my own. This may be the so-called "Conservative" opinion, but I don't let political views form my opinions.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  15. #415  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    You are more trusting. I can handle that.

    But it's been a good ride!

    Lastly, my opinions are my own. This may be the so-called "Conservative" opinion, but I don't let political views form my opinions.
    Scientists are not trusting but rather natural skeptics who look for facts and proof. I guess that drives my persistence this long into the thread. I look forward to more interesting discussions in the future.
  16.    #416  
    Insertion, good point! Our weathermen can't make accurate predictions, how can they make decades in advance predictions?

    CellMatrix, I agree with you, I feel we've reached a stalemate.
  17. #417  
    I don't mean to disrupt the stalemate, but weathermen aren't the ones making the predictions here...they rely on algorithms and computer models to predict a very, very dynamic and semichaotic system. The issues involved in global warming are an entirely different beast, and the predictions as such are from discernible cause-and-effect situations on a smaller scale.

    Regardless, as of late I've been amazed at how accurate some weather predictions have been as far as precipitation and general temperatures go (in Boston, MA)

    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Insertion, good point! Our weathermen can't make accurate predictions, how can they make decades in advance predictions?

    CellMatrix, I agree with you, I feel we've reached a stalemate.
  18. #418  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Insertion, good point! Our weathermen can't make accurate predictions, how can they make decades in advance predictions?

    CellMatrix, I agree with you, I feel we've reached a stalemate.
    It is a stalemate in that we have discussed this at length, and I still do not understand how you can feel so confident that global warming is entirely or almost entirely man-made, in light of all of the science out there, and I do not care frankly, but I respect your right to your own opinion.
  19.    #419  
    For the record, I feel man has little to do with any change with the climate. You had mentioned below the opposite. I believe it b/c there is no proof that man is to blame, only links to scientific information that in the end they'll typically state they're not sure who is to blame.

    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    It is a stalemate in that we have discussed this at length, and I still do not understand how you can feel so confident that global warming is entirely or almost entirely man-made, and I do not care frankly, but I respect your right to your own opinion.
  20. #420  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    For the record, I feel man has little to do with any change with the climate. You had mentioned below the opposite. I believe it b/c there is no proof that man is to blame, only links to scientific information that in the end they'll typically state they're not sure who is to blame.
    I think this is largely a misunderstanding about scientific language vs. everday language. From another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Because science is always aware of the fact that better data may lead to new conclusions, scientific facts are not labelled as "certain". But, from a practical point of view, what sciene considers a valid idea is very, very, very certain according to "normal life" standards.
    Global warming is a fact by any definition of fact you would use in your life. That the global warming we have experienced over the past 20 or 50 or 150 years is - to a large proportion - due to emission of greenhouse gasses, is true to a high degree of certainty. If a disease was diagnosed in you with the same degree of certainty, your doctor would recommend action, as would 95% or more of the colleagues you may consult for a second, third, etc. opinion.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)

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