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  1. #381  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    I am not a phyisicst, but I am quite sure it is not possible to shift earth with an earthquake, and also not by "jumping" of billions of people.

    The thing is, the moment the people jump, their gravitational mass pulls earth towards them (for a totally insignificant, unmeasurable bit), and when they come down again, that pull is just reversed (actio=reactio). It is impossible to have a net effect by jumping, the forces always compensate each other (unless you jump high enough to escape gravity of earth, which is tough).
    While that is true, I think the key to this theory is timing.
    When you climb on a chair at random times and jump of it at the same time, the effect could be strong enough to change orbit.
    In theory every horizontal movement has a small influence on the orbit. but the net. effect of the whole world evens things out.
    In this theory a big mass moves on one side of the world at the same time which in theory pulls or pushes the earth because of gravity (both of earth and of those people, the earth has a bigger force.)
    If you fall in theory the earth falls towards you too, since you have mass and hence gravity. But because your mass is so small (relative to earth) you won't notice it.
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  2. #382  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    If you fall in theory the earth falls towards you too, since you have mass and hence gravity. But because your mass is so small (relative to earth) you won't notice it.
    If your mass is too small to make earth move into your direction, that also means your mass is too small to make earth move into the other direction. Both effects are tiny, but they are the same in size, so they compensate each other...

    Hey, here's a question that just came to my mind: There are about 6 billion people on earth right now. If the population doubles, what is the increase of the weight of earth, roughly (assuming the weight of the atmosphere is part of the weight of earth as well)?
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  3. #383  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    If your mass is too small to make earth move into your direction, that also means your mass is too small to make earth move into the other direction. Both effects are tiny, but they are the same in size, so they compensate each other...
    not completely true. when you jump up, you do pull the earth towards you (a tiny bit) and when you land you push it back.
    However if you gently gain altitude and with a lot of people at the same time jump down, the impact might be noticable.. It's a momentum thing I guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Hey, here's a question that just came to my mind: There are about 6 billion people on earth right now. If the population doubles, what is the increase of the weight of earth, roughly (assuming the weight of the atmosphere is part of the weight of earth as well)?
    0 the mass of the people is created from the food it has eaten. The total mass of earth only changes when we shoot something into space or something falls from space (meteorites etc).
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  4.    #384  
    All you have to do to survive a plane crash is to jump right at impact.
  5. #385  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    0 the mass of the people is created from the food it has eaten. The total mass of earth only changes when we shoot something into space or something falls from space (meteorites etc).
    True! However, one has to take into consideration that all the carbon in our body is derived from plants (directly or indirectly via meat), and that the plants have taken up that carbon via CO2 from the atmosphere.

    This brings us back to the topic of this thread... CO2, and global warming!
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  6. #386  
    Quote Originally Posted by jpahl
    makes sense in both cases, conservation of momentum & conservation of matter.
    Are you saying ToolkiT is right and the orbit of earth can be changed by jumping (at least in theory)? I think this is not possible, precisely because momentum is conserved. Trying change this by going up one by one and then jumping back down all at once does not have a net effect in my view, it is just 1+1+1+1+1-5=0.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  7.    #387  
    I read from thislink and found some conservative views that counter many liberal thoughts that have been expressed. Basically in a nutshell, she provides many links that debunk global warming as a myth or that it is complete speculation.
  8. #388  
    Quote Originally Posted by jpahl
    oops, maybe didn't read correctly. I think you can't change orbit from jumping as no net change in momentum
    Thanks for the input!
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  9. #389  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    True! However, one has to take into consideration that all the carbon in our body is derived from plants (directly or indirectly via meat), and that the plants have taken up that carbon via CO2 from the atmosphere.

    This brings us back to the topic of this thread... CO2, and global warming!
    the athmosphere is part of this planet, so it still doesnt change anything
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  10. #390  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    All you have to do to survive a plane crash is to jump right at impact.
    if your body was 100% elastic you might be right, but since it isn't I dont think it is that simple..
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  11. #391  
    Quote Originally Posted by jpahl
    oops, maybe didn't read correctly. I think you can't change orbit from jumping as no net change in momentum
    I'm not sure wether or not it could work in theory, but I'm pretty sure that in real life it won't work.

    I'll ask my manager tomorrow, he studied astronomy so he might know..
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  12. #392  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    I read from thislink and found some conservative views that counter many liberal thoughts that have been expressed. Basically in a nutshell, she provides many links that debunk global warming as a myth or that it is complete speculation.
    Hi, I read your link above and Amy Riddenhour's article is interesting, but I do not see any data or links that show that man's contribution to global warming is insiginificant. Is there a link there you can point me to that I am not seeing? Thanks.
  13. #393  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    I read from thislink and found some conservative views that counter many liberal thoughts that have been expressed. Basically in a nutshell, she provides many links that debunk global warming as a myth or that it is complete speculation.
    What we have is "Amy Ridenour's National Center Blog" versus "The consensus reports from the IPCC, the National Academy of Sciences, the American Meteorological Society, the American Geophysical Union, and the American Association for the Advancement of Science (consensus report means that the majority of its members agree with the statement), as well the climate science literature for the past 5 years. Thats what I mean when I say the majority of the climate science community. Here is a good summary in Science (top science journal in the world) from two months ago, additional references are below. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conte...l/306/5702/1686" (Quoted from Cellmatrix' post here - thanks!)

    I leave it up to you who has the more relible data, and who knows more about climatology. You can choose to follow what "Amy Ridenour's National Center Blog" says, I choose to follow the results of the leading US and international scientists.

    I also looked at the "facts" she quoted. Much of them are just other news articles, but there are exceptions. One is a quote from "Dr. James Hansen of NASA", who apparently finds nothing to worry about regarding rising temperatures. However, when you look up some news about Hansen from NASA, you will find this recent article, where Hansen in fact states someting completely different:
    "There has been a strong warming trend over the past 30 years, a trend that has been shown to be due primarily to increasing greenhouse gases in the atmosphere,” said James Hansen of NASA’s Goddard Institute for Space Studies, based in New York."

    ""The Earth is now out of energy balance," Hansen and Sato wrote. "One result of this imbalance is that it makes it likely that global temperature in 2005, aided also by a weak El Nino, will exceed those of 2003 and 2004 and perhaps even the temperature of 1998, which had stood out far above the temperature of any year in the preceding century."


    I am not saying we should believe anything a single scientist says, but clearly, Hansen is in agreement with the great majority of scientists, who say that increasing greenhouse gasses cause global warming.

    Does it not strike you as odd that the best source speaking against global warming seems to be the unknown blogger Amy Ridenour? What type of information could possibly make you consider global warming due to greenhouse gas emissions could be a fact?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  14. #394  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    All you have to do to survive a plane crash is to jump right at impact.
    Of course, then you'd slam your head against the ceiling of the plane. And since the plane is moving at a certain velocity, the impact on your head would like drive your skull into your shoulders.

    So, now you'd have to quickly bore a hole through the roof.
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  15. #395  
    Just read an interesting article. Don't know how accurate or relevant it is, but another point of view.
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  16. hsk
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    #396  
    I don't think we're out of energy balance, I think we don't understand how insignificant we are on the overall scale of things. I'll bet your average forest fire produces more CO2 that a few hundred SUV's.
  17. #397  
    Quote Originally Posted by hsk
    I don't think we're out of energy balance, I think we don't understand how insignificant we are on the overall scale of things. I'll bet your average forest fire produces more CO2 that a few hundred SUV's.
    Well then we should cut down all the trees. No more trees no more fires.
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  18. hsk
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    #398  
    I guess you don't realize that the trees (amongst other plants) convert CO2 to oxygen?
  19. #399  
    I believe that was a joke.
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  20. #400  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Just read an interesting article. Don't know how accurate or relevant it is, but another point of view.
    Interesting find, and an additional very clear scientific statement pointing to man-made global warming, thanks for posting:

    "A circumpolar investigation led by Canadian scientists has discovered clear signs of climate change in scores of Arctic lakes dating back to the mid-19th century, when the Industrial Revolution kicked off widespread burning of fossil fuels."

    "Lead researcher John Smol of Queen's University said the study should put the final nail in the coffin of arguments that climate change is not happening."
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)

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