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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    and I drive a Jeep.
    Damn! I knew there was something about you i liked!
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Via Drudge Report, the BBC has shown some interesting pictures suggesting that Global Warming is occuring. link... Global Warming Pixs

    My school of thought is global warming is occuring, but human's contribution to it is inconsequential. Vasts amounts of pollution is made with mother nature. One example is volcanoes.

    So no matter who's to blame, from the pixs it appears many areas of the world better get ready!
    Read Michael Cricton's State of Fear. He has a position but it is well articulated, set in a good story, and a fun read. As with most of his books, I did not want it to end.

    One example that he uses is Mt. Kilimanjaro. Everyone knows that its glacier is shrinking because of CO2 and global warming, right? Everyone knows an untruth. The glacier is shrinking because of changes in land use at the bottom of the mountain.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Damn! I knew there was something about you i liked!
    hehehe
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    However, I do take some offense when I hear things that Man does. Afterall, are we also not a part of nature? How are these examples you pointed out not part of nature? I don't think you can take man out of the equation. We are part of the equation. Wouldn't this just be part of the evolutionary process?
    You are right of course, man is part of nature, so one can really question why an anthill is part of nature, while a man-made house is not.

    On the other hand, humans have one or two capabilities other animals, plants, bacteria etc. don't have. We have the power to change the planet on a far greater scale and in a much shorter time than other species can. And we have the brainpower to predict the effects of those actions to some extent.

    Does it matter for life on this planet in general if the temperature rises by a few degrees, or if level of the ocean rises for a few feet over the period of a few decades? Not really, life on this planet will go on.

    Does it matter for you or your children if in 50 years or so it is too dry to grow crops in the Midwest, or if we have to rebuild all the cities along the coast higher up? Does it matter for the people living on the Maldives if they have to leave the islands because they can't live there any more?

    I guess it does matter, and we should be aware of the fact that it is a realistic possibility...
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Does it matter for life on this planet in general if the temperature rises by a few degrees, or if level of the ocean rises for a few feet over the period of a few decades? Not really, life on this planet will go on.

    Does it matter for you or your children if in 50 years or so it is too dry to grow crops in the Midwest, or if we have to rebuild all the cities along the coast higher up? Does it matter for the people living on the Maldives if they have to leave the islands because they can't live there any more?...
    Does it matter?? This is the lifecycle of the planet. Over 500 million years ago, what is now Colorado was under water as the seas came if from the east and west.

    200 million years ago we had sub-tropical and arid conditions after the waters receded. 1.8 million years ago we had an ice age and mammals were extinct.

    How did all of those things happen without man? Sh!t happens clulup, and it may or may not happen again in the next million years.

    Instead of worring about "global warming" and what might happen, isnt a bigger concern perhaps the use of "dirty bombs" by terrorists on the 10 largest cities of Europe. That certainly would worry me more then whether it will be too dry to grow crops in the Midwest. You actually think that all these farmers in the US wait for it to rain?

    I think the world may have bigger challanges then the Kyoto Protocol and whether global warming is a Common Concern of Humankind. Since the US is the world's largest polluter, somebody is gonna hafta pick up the slack and cover for us. Maybe China...oopps, they're exempt. India...exempt. That leaves the EU...that should just about do in the economies of france and germany.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Does it matter?? This is the lifecycle of the planet. Over 500 million years ago, what is now Colorado was under water as the seas came if from the east and west.
    You are able to tell the difference between 500 million years and 50 years, are you? This has nothing to do with "the lifecycle of the planet" (whatever that may be?).
    How did all of those things happen without man? Sh!t happens clulup, and it may or may not happen again in the next million years.
    Of course there are dozens of very good reasons why this happened without man. It's the short time scale that is a problem in the present case...
    Instead of worring about "global warming" and what might happen, isnt a bigger concern perhaps the use of "dirty bombs" by terrorists on the 10 largest cities of Europe. That certainly would worry me more then whether it will be too dry to grow crops in the Midwest. You actually think that all these farmers in the US wait for it to rain?
    How terribly naive... what do you think would happen when major sources of food are lost and some regions of the world will become inhabitable... What is your guess, will the people just sit and starve, or will they cause more problems than they already do now? Islamisic terrorism could be the least of the worries by then.

    But I know, I am wasting my time here. A world in which teenagers don't have Jeeps is certainly not worth living for. It's definitely better to pretend all of those silly things climatologists invent don't exist.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    ......But I know, I am wasting my time here. A world in which teenagers don't have Jeeps is certainly not worth living for. It's definitely better to pretend all of those silly things climatologists invent don't exist.
    Read State of Fear by Michael Crichton. It is just possible that someone is yanking your chain. You may wish to let go of the chain.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Read State of Fear by Michael Crichton. It is just possible that someone is yanking your chain. You may wish to let go of the chain.
    Crichton says, "If there is one thing of which I am certain, it is that there is too much certainty in the world."
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    You are able to tell the difference between 500 million years and 50 years, are you? This has nothing to do with "the lifecycle of the planet" (whatever that may be?).
    Of course there are dozens of very good reasons why this happened without man. It's the short time scale that is a problem in the present case...
    How terribly naive... what do you think would happen when major sources of food are lost and some regions of the world will become inhabitable... What is your guess, will the people just sit and starve, or will they cause more problems than they already do now? Islamisic terrorism could be the least of the worries by then.

    But I know, I am wasting my time here. A world in which teenagers don't have Jeeps is certainly not worth living for. It's definitely better to pretend all of those silly things climatologists invent don't exist.
    For a man that purports himself to be intelligent, I find you to be the one that is naive and actually very silly. To have fallen for so much of this bogus science and then try to use it to draw conclusions that disaster awaits us "just around the corner." Give it a rest. You seem to forget that these are theories on "Global Warming". Once again , let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story. As I said...you guys are on your own. Maybe a good place to start is to reduce your use of energy and turn off your computer. Unless you generate from solar or wind, you are nothing but a net energy user and are part of your supposed problem. Thanks for stopping by.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  10. #30  
    I may be far removed from teenager, but a world without my XJ would be no fun!
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  11. #31  
    "You are able to tell the difference between 500 million years and 50 years, are you? This has nothing to do with "the lifecycle of the planet" (whatever that may be?).
    Of course there are dozens of very good reasons why this happened without man. It's the short time scale that is a problem in the present case...
    How terribly naive... what do you think would happen when major sources of food are lost and some regions of the world will become inhabitable... What is your guess, will the people just sit and starve, or will they cause more problems than they already do now? Islamisic terrorism could be the least of the worries by then.

    But I know, I am wasting my time here. A world in which teenagers don't have Jeeps is certainly not worth living for. It's definitely better to pretend all of those silly things climatologists invent don't exist"

    - clulup

    invent this -


    http://www.chronwatch.com/content/co....asp?aid=12594

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1292900/posts

    http://www.fed-soc.org/Publications/...w/el020103.htm

    Global Warming is Nothing More than an Educated Guess
    Linda Bowles*

    The Global Warming Treaty negotiated in Kyoto, Japan by the Clinton-Gore Administration is a scam. The involvement of the United States with a horde of other nations in a squirrelly scheme to fight global warming is based largely on a report issued by the United Nations in 1996. We now learn that a number of the scientists who helped prepare the report are upset because certain passages were edited out before publication. What was omitted was not incidental.

    Included in the censored material are these disclaimers: "None of the studies cited above has shown clear evidence that we can attribute the observed climate changes to increases in greenhouse gases . . . No study to date has positively attributed all or part of the climate change to man-made causes."

    The censored words tell the whole story, not only about global warming but about the integrity of the people who published the report. Science has a methodology for establishing scientific facts. The burden of proof is upon the researcher. From the perspective of science, the proof does not exist that global warming is real. Additionally, if one accepts as true that global warming does exist, there is no proof that man-made greenhouse gases have anything to do with it.

    In a recent Gallup poll of members of the Meteorological Society and the American Geophysical Society, only 17% believed greenhouse gases caused warming in this century.

    Global warming is nothing more than an educated guess by many of the same scientists who are still arguing about what happened to the dinosaurs. Perhaps we should think carefully before putting blind faith in people who cannot explain the simple disappearance of tens of millions of creatures, many of which were the size of locomotives.

    What accounts for the confidence of the White House in an unproven and strongly disputed theory about greenhouse gases? We have a clue. In a speech to a group of religious leaders in 1991, Al Gore said the following, "We are not separate from the earth. God is not separate from the earth."

    Gore’s worship of the earth is in view. His fervor to protect the earth can now be understood in terms of his primitive faith and his New Age, geocentric perspectives.

    In his book, Earth in the Balance (one of the Unabomber’s favorite reads), Gore wrote, "We must make the rescue of the environment the central organizing principle for civilization."

    Gore’s holistic, eco-jingoism has led him to a "one world" view. His willingness to subordinate American sovereignty to the United Nations can now be understood.

    The Global Warming Treaty calls for a reduction in greenhouse gases in the United States to 7% below 1990 levels by the year 2012. Assuming an average economic growth of 2.5% a year, the economy in 2012 will be over 50% larger than in 1990.

    Thus, we are committing that by 2012 we will be using even less of the fuels that produce the so-called greenhouse gases than we were using 22 years earlier. These fuels include gasoline, coal, and oil, and account for 90% of the energy generated in the United States.

    This could be catastrophic for our economy, our jobs, and our quality of life.

    How would such a massive cutback be achieved? It would require increased government control of research efforts. It would require bigger taxes on fuel. It would require stern regulations governing industrial practices and onerous restrictions on private behavior and choices.

    An already intrusive government would invade our liberties even further, taking charge of our lives in the name of what’s good for us, telling us what to eat, what clothes to wear, what cars to drive, where to set our thermostats, how often to barbecue, when to turn out the lights, what to believe, and what to think.

    China, Russia, India, Mexico, and more than 100 Third World countries are not included in the binding agreement, thus setting up even more incentives for American companies to move offshore.

    All this to avoid a hypothetical problem! How will compliance be confirmed and how will noncompliance be punished? Will United Nations bureaucrats be crawling all over America inspecting our factories and fireplaces? How will success be measured? There is every reason to believe that if every country achieved its goals, there would not be a measurable effect upon global temperatures. Would that give rise to a call for even more stringent measures?

    It is a socialistic dream come true. Socialist governments have historically solved problems by asking the people to make sacrifices and when the problems worsened, asking for even deeper sacrifices, including, eventually, the sacrifice of freedom itself.

    It is madness.
    Last edited by treobk214; 02/17/2005 at 09:37 PM.
  12. #32  
    All kidding aside Clulip, this is all speculation and theory based on computer modeling.

    Did you happen to review the link that Cellmatrix posted? Let's just assume that that site is completely unbiased, and not trying to push forth a certain agenda. Here is a quote from the article:

    The researchers cannot yet put a timescale on the temperature increases, although they suggest that extreme warming could take decades or centuries.
    Decades, or centuries?!?. I'll make a prediction. The Earth will be pelted my a large meteorite. I can't give you a timescale, but it'll be decades, perhaps centuries from now. Now that would have a far more damaging threat than any percieved mad made warming theory. What about Volcanic eruption? I remember reading about Krakatoa, and how the temperature of the planet was below "normal" for some five years after the eruption. And that wasn't even the greatest known eruption. Vesuvius was larger some 1800 years earlier, and yet an even greater eruption occured sometime during 1500BC -1400BC. These are not man made.

    I'm not here trying to tell you mankind may or may not be a contibutor. Merely reralize that "Nature" itself has been far more destructive than man.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  13. #33  
    http://xtronics.com/reference/globalwarming.htm

    Global Warming is not Scientific
    Is Global warming a scientific theory or a belief?
    There are many claiming to be "client scientists", yet (for some strange reason) they don't realize that statistics is not science. Science requires an experimental control. Statistics often provides a scientist a good idea for a hypothesis, but correlations do not prove cause and effect. Furthermore, a computer models are not an experiments in that they again can not discriminate theories into true and false. (They may give one an idea where to poke around, but to claim they "prove" anything is pure fiction and should lead one to discount the source.)


    For something to be considered a scientific fact, it must be testable with the scientific method. One of the steps of the method is an experiment. An experiment requires a control. Computer models are not experiments.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I may be far removed from teenager, but a world without my XJ would be no fun!
    This is Sally the Jeep
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214

    It is a socialistic dream come true. Socialist governments have historically solved problems by asking the people to make sacrifices and when the problems worsened, asking for even deeper sacrifices, including, eventually, the sacrifice of freedom itself.
    You obviously have no clue about socialism
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    The nature article never mentions the cause, only the effect. Looking for proof of man's impact, not conjecture of what happens with global warming.
    the article is just meant to inform latest work, not to prove everything to you, I am out of town but when I am back I will post more on this. I am glad you brought up this thread. Cheers.
  17. #37  
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2023835.stm

    In a 268-page report submitted to the United Nations, the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) endorsed what many scientists have long argued - that human activities such as oil refining, power generation and car emissions are significant causes of global warming.
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  18.    #38  
    Why doesn't China ever get blamed for anything. At least our country makes an effort for a cleaner environment.

    Article on China .
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    This is Sally the Jeep
    How cute, A TJ girl! And even better is that it's a bit dirty, could be dirtier, but at least it's not a mall crawler!!
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Why doesn't China ever get blamed for anything. At least our country makes an effort for a cleaner environment.

    Article on China .
    I do blame China, and Russia too, and india and canada and Holland and the UK etc. etc. we all play our part in this..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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