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  1. groovy's Avatar
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    #2121  
    U.N. climate panel admits Dutch sea level flaw | Top News | Reuters

    OSLO (Reuters) - The U.N. panel of climate experts overstated how much of the Netherlands is below sea level, according to a preliminary report on Saturday, admitting yet another flaw after a row last month over Himalayan glacier melt.
  2. Micael's Avatar
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    #2122  
    Current articles... word seems to finally be getting out:

    PRUDEN: Global Warming scam begins to unravel...

    Lake Erie Frozen over; First Time in 14 Years...

    CONSENSUS IS CRACKING UP...

    The Continuing Climate Meltdown...

    So where are Zelco and Bujin now? They were the ones screaming loudest about concensus and "settled science" a couple of months back.... I'd like to hear what they have to say.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  3. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2123  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    Current articles... word seems to finally be getting out:

    PRUDEN: Global Warming scam begins to unravel...

    Lake Erie Frozen over; First Time in 14 Years...

    CONSENSUS IS CRACKING UP...

    The Continuing Climate Meltdown...

    So where are Zelco and Bujin now? They were the ones screaming loudest about concensus and "settled science" a couple of months back.... I'd like to hear what they have to say.
    I'm not sure this changes anything for the people who preached "consensus" and "settled science," because scientific method, and data weren't important to them in the first place. It was merely a weapon they THOUGHT they could wield without anyone ever questioning them.

    What I think we are seeing here is a lot of fear on the part of various people, some of which may be wrongdoers--guilty of fraud, and others who may have bought into some fraud. When you start to see people backing off what only months ago was "settled science" it may very well be "rats fleeing a sinking ship" syndrome. It may be an attempt to get ahead of the controversy and maintain SOME level of credibility as well. Hard to say, but the myth of "settled science" has been thoroughly shattered--which is a very good thing, because such a *******ization of science is not good.

    The interesting thing to note is that just a few weeks ago, Hansen at NASA was touting the hottest decade, but now we've got this Jones character breaking ranks, and saying we've not had any significant warming for nearly 15 year.

    It would seem that this will make the "consensus" argument harder to make, but I don't expect they will stop trying.

    KAM
  4. Micael's Avatar
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    #2124  
    Quote Originally Posted by KAM1138 View Post
    I'm not sure this changes anything for the people who preached "consensus" and "settled science," because scientific method, and data weren't important to them in the first place. It was merely a weapon they THOUGHT they could wield without anyone ever questioning them.

    What I think we are seeing here is a lot of fear on the part of various people, some of which may be wrongdoers--guilty of fraud, and others who may have bought into some fraud. When you start to see people backing off what only months ago was "settled science" it may very well be "rats fleeing a sinking ship" syndrome. It may be an attempt to get ahead of the controversy and maintain SOME level of credibility as well. Hard to say, but the myth of "settled science" has been thoroughly shattered--which is a very good thing, because such a *******ization of science is not good.

    The interesting thing to note is that just a few weeks ago, Hansen at NASA was touting the hottest decade, but now we've got this Jones character breaking ranks, and saying we've not had any significant warming for nearly 15 year.

    It would seem that this will make the "consensus" argument harder to make, but I don't expect they will stop trying.

    KAM
    They won't stop until they control all energy industries globally.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  5. KAM1138
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    #2125  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    They won't stop until they control all energy industries globally.
    You horrible, horrible cynical conspiracy theorist. How dare you question the intentions of these saviors of mother Earth. Oh no--I'm sure they don't want to control anything--they are just saving the planet.

    KAM
  6. KAM1138
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    #2126  
    Hello Everyone,

    Here's a somewhat balanced article that people might find interesting.

    The science isn't settled. Now what? - The Globe and Mail

    KAM
  7. Micael's Avatar
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    #2127  
    It's oddly quiet in this thread... funny that the left seems to have lost interest in this debate. Hrmm....

    Seems something was settled, after all
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2128  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    It's oddly quiet in this thread... funny that the left seems to have lost interest in this debate. Hrmm....

    Seems something was settled, after all
    Give them some time to retrench and change their propaganda around (like they did when they switched to "climate change" from "global warming." Don't worry--I'm sure the same non-scientific agenda will be back on track soon.

    KAM
  9. groovy's Avatar
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    #2129  
    I'm sure they'll stay on point: "These unfortunate incidents in no way undermine the overwhelming consensus of the scientific community that the climate is warming and human-produced greenhouse gases are a key factor."

    I just wonder how long that line can hold.
  10. #2131  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael View Post
    It's oddly quiet in this thread... funny that the left seems to have lost interest in this debate. Hrmm....

    Seems something was settled, after all
    I only posted here hoping to get a better answer of why one political party is so aggressive to prove it is, and why the other is so aggressive to prove it's not.
    I seemed to upset you by the looks of your first reply. Your second reply reduced it to just a need for control and the fight by the other against it.

    I haven't a side to defend other than anything we can do to help our earth. As I'm sure both sides are.

    I'm sure the Left aren't done. I'm sure something will spark this Warm topic down the road.
  11. #2133  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I only posted here hoping to get a better answer of why one political party is so aggressive to prove it is, and why the other is so aggressive to prove it's not.
    If I had to narrow it down to a simple "why" to explain my opposition to the man-made warming theory, it would be Liberty. I'll try to explain.

    The proponents of man-made warming are calling for very strong measures to prevent our theorized "doom." Measures which include incredibly high levels of taxation, expensive and intrusive mandates on businesses, and even calls for us to radically change our lifestyles. The common thread all those have is granting far more control to the federal government in order for these "necessary" measures to be implemented, which means that individuals must cede more rights to bureaucrats who will then distribute the huge sums of cash to those they deem worthy (and accepting all the perks that go along with that).

    As far as political parties go, one typically is unashamed to call for more centralized control while the other rejects that call (or at least pretends to). One typically calls for more regulation and oversight of businesses while the other doesn't. Basically, a theory for man-made warming is a dream come true for proponents of a more powerful federal government. More power, more money, more influence, all under the guise of saving us all from destruction.

    Conservation is good. Having reasonable laws on the books to prevent wanton destruction of the ecology is good. However, joining politics to science in order to promote a fraud on the people is just wrong.

    There. That should get this thread going again.
  12. #2134  
    This is issue was going to slowly die anyway as there are just way too many variables involved in this "science". I mean, when I read that past temperatures (ones before man was able to properly record it) were measured by checking the width of rings inside trees to determine past temperatures, and that most admit this is not very accurate, it just made it clear that much data being used to prove something is simply being made up and used as fact. I still have to laugh at anyone predicting weather 25, 30, or 40 years from now. When I can trust the weather being predicted for next week, maybe then I'll consider the crazy notion of predicting weather years in advance. Too many variables for any model to accurately predict.

    All I can really relate to is what temperatures are like here in Charelston SC. Our winters are mild to what many of you experience, but I don't recall as many sub 50 high temp days, or sub 32 temp nights. Not to mention the first snow in 20 years. Also, when I was a young guy (let's just say 35+ years ago) I remember many summer days of 100+ temps, in the same season. This past summer? I don't recall any days over 100, and in fact, it was quite mild really.

    I fully understand that one year does not break a trend, but I simply don't see the trend here. I am looking forward to finally breaking into the 60s this coming weekend (fingers crossed), and actually hope this global warming kicks back in so we can have some more Charleston like weather.
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  13. tannyo's Avatar
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    #2135  
    It's not just that they used tree rings, which would be okay if that's all they used, but part of the data for the hockey stick is based on cherry picked tree ring data and the more modern part is based on cherry picked temperature stations. Why didn't they use all of the tree ring data? Why did they not use all of the temperature stations? Now, they've "lost" the data so the theory cannot be replicated by anyone else, breaking the scientific method.

    What about that "the medieval warming period (MWP) may have been global after all"? In Europe the Medieval Warming Period was warmer than it is now.
  14. KAM1138
    KAM1138's Avatar
    #2136  
    Hello Everyone,

    I ran across this article.
    How Al Gore Wrecked Planet Earth - Walter Russell Mead's Blog - The American Interest

    I don't happen to share this author's view of the so-called demise of this political movement, or really anything specific, but I found it an interesting perspective.

    If this is in fact the death-knell of this AGW business (which I highly doubt) this might go down in history as one of the biggest examples of self-destruction. Right now, it appears that this house of cards is just falling apart. Its almost hard to believe. Can anyone have imagined this happening a year ago--or at least happening so quickly?

    Now, again, in my view, it is very optimistic (or unrealistic) to believe that a political movement such as AGW is going to simply shrivel up and go away. That is exceedingly rare. What is much more likely is that it will simply sit back and wait, and then move forward right where they left off. It is also possible that it will morph into something else--latching onto some other less "hot" (no pun intended) issue that they can use as their homebase as it were. This will at best be a retreat, not a surrender, so skeptics have no reason to celebrate and every reason to continue pursuit of scientific investigation. Climate Change (the real thing, not the political movement) is a legitimate area of science, and perhaps the rats fleeing the sinking ship will allow it to re-emerge without the stink of politics on it. I personally, doubt we can ever control the weather, but we might be able to understand it better, and plan to adapt to it better.

    This thread really has been quiet lately though hasn't it. Odd given that so much has happened lately in regards to this exact issue.

    KAM
  15. Micael's Avatar
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    #2137  
    Quote Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle View Post
    I only posted here hoping to get a better answer of why one political party is so aggressive to prove it is, and why the other is so aggressive to prove it's not.
    I seemed to upset you by the looks of your first reply. Your second reply reduced it to just a need for control and the fight by the other against it.

    I haven't a side to defend other than anything we can do to help our earth. As I'm sure both sides are.

    I'm sure the Left aren't done. I'm sure something will spark this Warm topic down the road.
    It's a left thing, right thing, because of the legislation that's following the supposed science..... cap and trade, green spending, etc.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. Micael's Avatar
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    #2138  
    Quote Originally Posted by tannyo View Post
    It's not just that they used tree rings, which would be okay if that's all they used, but part of the data for the hockey stick is based on cherry picked tree ring data and the more modern part is based on cherry picked temperature stations. Why didn't they use all of the tree ring data? Why did they not use all of the temperature stations? Now, they've "lost" the data so the theory cannot be replicated by anyone else, breaking the scientific method.

    What about that "the medieval warming period (MWP) may have been global after all"? In Europe the Medieval Warming Period was warmer than it is now.
    Simple. They cherry pick to support an agenda. It's pure politickin.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. #2139  
    There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
    Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  18. #2140  
    wow I don't believe in global warming . It just another money making sham wow !!
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