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  1. NRG
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    #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    I think President Bush has generated about every scrap of paper associated with his Guard service that was ever made. He certainly has had MUCH more press scrutiny that Kerry received. (You are aware, of course, of the discrepency of the discharge dates in what records Kerry has released. There is a strong case to be made that Kerry was dishonorably discharged for his treasonous act of travelling to Paris to meet with the enemy. This discharge was upgraded after Carter's amnesty.) Kerry has pledged to sign the 180...yet continues to fail to do so. Why do you think that is?
    Is this all you can come up with? Kerry bashing? You folks need to move forward and quit harping on a loser like Kerry. Address the issues at hand which is Soc. Security, how to fix it, why Bush's non-existent "plan" makes no sense, and how to get out of hole that we are digging ourselves in. Quit blaming the otherside and accept the responsibilty that comes with being in the majority.
  2. #102  
    I addressed your point earlier. What you are seeing now is W shaping the issue. There will be a compromise. People will be allowed to save some of their own money. This, as opposed to having their money extorted from them and placed into Roosevelt's Ponzi scheme.

    Karl Rove will take you guys down again.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    zezezezeezezezezezez....... WE GOT ONE ON BOYS!!!

    It is not a matter of people keeping their money. It is a matter of not relying on the stock market.

    e.g.
    AT THE CLOSING BELL WHEN BUSH TOOK OFFICE on January 22, 2001

    Dow - 10,578.24
    Nasdaq - 2,757.91
    S&P 500 - 1,342.90

    at 2:23 EST April 14, 2005

    Dow 10,340.30
    Nasdaq 1,959.11
    S&P 500 1,168.62

    true,but the stock market will recover....The stock market has averaged ~10% return on investments yearly...this even includes the Great Depression. If you went and looked at the stock market before the Great Depression and then look after the great depression was over, you would see that the stock market recovered and still gave a 10% increase yearly overall return. Right now, the stocks are down but will rebound and the 10% return will be shown again (then again, since this is an average thing....maybe this decline is actually the stock market "fixing" itself from the mid-90's telecom/technology rates that were well above this 10%).
  4. vw2002's Avatar
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    #104  
    my inlaws, democrat, were insisting this weekend that one of the main reasons that social security is being depleted is that bush is borrowing from the program to pay for the current iraqi war.
    IS THIS TRUE? or is this democrat spin on facts?
    I've always heard that it has been other democrat programs ie welfare etc, that have been the real culprits for the crisis.
    is it true that we are borrowing from social security to pay for the war?

    they were also saying privatization & personal accounts were good only for the rich, but not for the poor or middle class ie walmart workers, etc. because they couldn't save enough of what they made to help themselves later. is this true?
    I gotta have more cowbell
  5. #105  
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    #106  
    Nice article! I forwarded it over to them after reading it!

    The other question was about bush taking money out of social security to pay for the war. I think they've got this wrong. Funding for the war comes out of our taxes, not from social security, correct?
    I gotta have more cowbell
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    I addressed your point earlier. What you are seeing now is W shaping the issue. There will be a compromise. People will be allowed to save some of their own money. This, as opposed to having their money extorted from them and placed into Roosevelt's Ponzi scheme.

    Karl Rove will take you guys down again.
    Bush and his people mislead us on social security:

    http://factcheck.org/article302.html

    fool me once, shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again.
  8. NRG
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    #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Offer fact not opinion please.
  9. vw2002's Avatar
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    #109  
    "the other question was about bush taking money out of social security to pay for the war. I think they've got this wrong. Funding for the war comes out of our 
    I gotta have more cowbell
  10. vw2002's Avatar
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    #110  
    " Funding for the war comes out of our taxes, not from social security, correct? "

    this the BIG question id like to get the answer to. what is everyone's take on this?
    I gotta have more cowbell
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Offer fact not opinion please.
    Did you READ the article at the link? Those are hard numbers. Maybe I should cut and paste the article here?
  12. #112  
    The Proof's in the Pension
    By JOHN TIERNEY

    Published: April 26, 2005


    John Tierney



    SANTIAGO, Chile

    I made a pilgrimage to Santiago seeking to resolve the Social Security debate with a simple question: What would Pablo Serra do?

    I wanted to compare our pensions to see the results of an accidental experiment that began in 1961, when he and I were friends in second grade at a school in Chile. He remained in Chile and became the test subject; I returned to America as the control group.
    <snip>
    Last edited by KRamsauer; 04/26/2005 at 06:11 PM.
  13. vw2002's Avatar
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    #113  
    " Funding for the war comes out of our taxes, not from social security, correct? "

    I will take the lack of responses to mean that my inlaws are dead wrong here- that the war is not being waged at the expense of social security. that they are merely trying to slander bush by making outlandish, nonsensical remarks which are supported by no facts whatsoever.
    this is good to know. this is also the reason why I regard my mother-in-law as the monster-in-law. we travel 500 miles to visit her and all I get is an earfull of politics. absolutely lousy
    I gotta have more cowbell
  14. NRG
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    #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002
    " Funding for the war comes out of our taxes, not from social security, correct? "

    I will take the lack of responses to mean that my inlaws are dead wrong here- that the war is not being waged at the expense of social security. that they are merely trying to slander bush by making outlandish, nonsensical remarks which are supported by no facts whatsoever.
    this is good to know. this is also the reason why I regard my mother-in-law as the monster-in-law. we travel 500 miles to visit her and all I get is an earfull of politics. absolutely lousy
    Now, I won't go as far to say that SS is paying for the war, but because of the large deficit
    the federal goverment is for damn sure taking money out of SS's trust fund to pay for other things. Move it around as you wish but I see the war in Iraq as an unnessacry expenditure and maybe we could take less out of SS if we didn't have to pay for Iraq.
  15. NRG
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    #116  
    That lock box scheme doesn't seem so funny now does it? By the way where did our surplus go?
  16. #117  
    There never was a surplus. That was all creative accounting.

    Hmmm. The war on terror in Iraq costs almost as much as Johnson's Great Society. At least we're securing that nation by fighting terrorism.

    Roosevelt's Ponzi scheme is falling apart. I'm almost 43, and I'll sing a duet with Elvis before I see a social security check.
  17. #118  
    I think Pultizer Prize winning author Thomas Freidman put it quite well in one of his recent columns in the New York Times:

    "How will future historians explain it? How will they possibly explain why President George W. Bush decided to ignore the energy crisis staring us in the face and chose instead to spend all his electoral capital on a futile effort to undo the New Deal, by partially privatizing Social Security? We are, quite simply, witnessing one of the greatest examples of misplaced priorities in the history of the U.S. presidency."

    http://www.apolloalliance.org/apollo...05_nytimes.cfm
  18. #119  
    A Bush hating journalist commenting on W's priorities. Yeah, THAT'S credibility.
  19. #120  
    Friedman is one of the most respected journalists, has won at least three Pultizer prizes and is not at all unidimensional as you try to make him out to be, especially in terms of economic policy.

    For example, he supported the Iraq invasion, he advocates laissez-faire capitalism, and most of his economic views draw praise from conservatives and are attacked by the left.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_L._Friedman

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