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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    That article is exactly what I'm referring too! Thanks for the link dlbrummels!
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  2. #62  
    Ps. Cool avatar, where is it?

    oslo, norway. beautiful country!
  3. #63  
    "Let the battle for Christmas begin."


    sign me up, baby! its time to lay it down on these people!
  4. #64  
    Yes, the ACLU can 'appear' to be partisan when one particular party aligns itself with the "christian right" which wishes to impose it's particular religion on the rest of the Nation.

    On the contrary, avoiding gov't endorsement of religion is in EVERYONE's interest.

    I just went to the site in question and poked around a bit. What is this 'rabidness' you speak of. Or is that the term you use when it conflicts with your opinion?
    http://www.reclaimamerica.org/Pages/ACLU/ACLUhome.html
    Looks a little rabid to me.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yes, the ACLU can 'appear' to be partisan when one particular party aligns itself with the "christian right" which wishes to impose it's particular religion on the rest of the Nation.

    On the contrary, avoiding gov't endorsement of religion is in EVERYONE's interest.


    http://www.reclaimamerica.org/Pages/ACLU/ACLUhome.html
    Looks a little rabid to me.
    The ACLU can 'appear' to be partisan when is regularly fights on behalf of the radical left.

    Uh the Constitution avoids the government endorsement of a particular religion. We have never had a state sponsored religion in 229 years as a country. Please post your links to the documentation of constitutional ammendment dirves that have sought to change this.

    So I guess all growling wolves are rabid?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yes, the ACLU can 'appear' to be partisan when one particular party aligns itself with the "christian right" which wishes to impose it's particular religion on the rest of the Nation.

    On the contrary, avoiding gov't endorsement of religion is in EVERYONE's interest.


    http://www.reclaimamerica.org/Pages/ACLU/ACLUhome.html
    Looks a little rabid to me.
    Who is talking about government endorsement of religion ?!?!

    We have had "Christmas parties" for hundreads of years, we have had the ten commandments in our courts for decades, the declaration of independence itself refrences god several times, our money says in god we trust, our pledge includes it.

    NONE of these things are an "estabilishment" of religon as is forbidden. I am so sick of hearing people talk about "seperation of church and state" where the hell did that come from ? There is nothing in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, any amendment, that even comes CLOSE to suggesting such an absurd thing. Yet somehow the left has gotten away with creating a fantom amendment, they refer to this "seperation of church and state" in court cases and for some insane reasons no judge asks them to point out where that clause exists.

    I am ashamed that my children can no longer experience Christmas in school, they can not sing carols they can not have decorations they cant even speak of it ! Jeudo-Christian values is what this country was founded on, it was not founded by athesists to create a nation of atheists.
  7. #67  
    riekl we just dont know where to look. I am sure daThomas will come up with something.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  8. #68  
    NONE of these things are an "estabilishment" of religon as is forbidden. I am so sick of hearing people talk about "seperation of church and state" where the hell did that come from ? There is nothing in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, any amendment, that even comes CLOSE to suggesting such an absurd thing. Yet somehow the left has gotten away with creating a fantom amendment, they refer to this "seperation of church and state" in court cases and for some insane reasons no judge asks them to point out where that clause exists.
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    — The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

    Seems pretty clear to me.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    — The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

    Seems pretty clear to me.
    Duh! Please show us examples of where the governement has established a state religion and the resulting need for the ACLU to intervene.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  10. #70  
    Has anyone ever won an argument discussing religion or politics?
  11. #71  
    Has anyone ever won an argument discussing religion or politics?
    Oh, I don't know. Maybe racial minorities.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    — The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

    Seems pretty clear to me.
    Ok .. now please show me where Congress has ever made a law establishing a state religon or prohibiting one ? HrM ??

    The above means the government can not say "Christianity is the government of the US" it does not say mean hint or imply that you can not have the 10 commandments in a courthouse or have "christmas" parties at schools.
  13. #73  
    Duh! Please show us examples of where the governement has established a state religion and the resulting need for the ACLU to intervene.
    The amendment does not specify a "state religion".

    I did however point out an example where it was necessary for the ACLU to prevent the government from "prohibiting the free exercise" of one's religion.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    The amendment does not specify a "state religion".

    I did however point out an example where it was necessary for the ACLU to prevent the government from "prohibiting the free exercise" of one's religion.
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion
    WTF do you think this means? Congress means the government. The state is a common reference to a government. The Constitution is about the country. WTF do you think they are talking about? Religion for the afterschool camera club?

    And how many cases of the ACLU fighting to prohibit the free exercise of religion have been quoted or linked to here?

    Your habit of only addressing the points that suit you in the way that support your POV is very annoying.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  15. #75  
    "State Religion" implies to me a single religion endorsed by the state.

    The first amendment applies to the lowest levels of government institutions AND to any religion.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    "State Religion" implies to me a single religion endorsed by the state.

    The first amendment applies to the lowest levels of government institutions AND to any religion.
    and again I ask, please cite cases where any government institution has established and endorsed religion.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    — The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

    Seems pretty clear to me.
    Seems pretty clear to me also
  18. #78  
    and again I ask, please cite cases where any government institution has established and endorsed religion.


    Lemon v. Kurtzman,
    Earley v. DiCenso
    and
    Robinson v. DiCenso
  19. #79  
    From the link
    These three cases from Pennsylvania and Rhode Island involved public assistance to private schools, some of which were religious. Pennsylvania's law included paying the salaries of teachers in parochial schools, assisting the purchasing of textbooks, and other teaching supplies. In Rhode Island, the State paid 15% of the salaries of private school teachers. A federal court upheld the Pennsylvania law while a District Court ruled that the Rhode Island law fostered 'excessive entanglement'.
    Doesn't actually look like the "government" established any kind of religous rules here. Instead it looks a though the Court decided that this was unconstitutional and put a stop to it.

    No mention of the ACLU.
    As I read it the Court told several private schools that they could not accept state funds for teachers in a religious school.

    How does this fly as an example of the government establishing religion?

    The fact that the second amendment specifically names Congress in it statement about establishing religion also kinda throws a case in a particular state out the window IMO. Werenot talking about individual states, were talking about the Federal Government. And dont try to say the use of the phrase "the state" was ever intended to mean a particular state like PA or RI. You know damn well that was not what we were talking about.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    OK, I am closing this thread for maintenance; it needs some disinfecting and new screws. I may reopen it in time for the next elections….
    Chick, you and your avatar are evil.... Use the full 150*150 pixels sista -- quit teasing us!!!!!!!!
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