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  1. #61  
    hey woof, my 2 cents:
    have you actually contacted the software company and explained the full situation to them? Obviously they keep a tight lid on their software, no copies/back ups allowed, but you should be able to make apretty compelling case that you need to have another laptop (say a $1,000.00 one) loaded with their software, what with the police reports, insurance investigation and so on. Have your "subordinate" sign an affidavit on the theft. Put together all the documents you can and plead with aflac, you will need it in court. Remember, if you sue the guy YOU have the complete burden of proof not only on fault, but damages. A small claims judge will not understand this concept of a cheap lap top with really expensive irreplaceable software, unless you doument and explain fully to him/her that: a) you only get the software once, no back-up allowed, and b) they refuse to reinstall. Ask aflac to reply to you in writing that they refuse to reinstall on a new laptop-you'll need that evidence, since it really seems incredulous that they wont, but if that the case, you'll have to prove it.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Muziek
    If there was no agreement between Mr. Woof and the other person, and I am representing that other person, I would argue that my client's understanding of this "loan" was that if it is lost or damaged he (my client) will be responsible only for what his insurance (see mentioned in this thread) is willing/can pay under his own contract with them. In the absence of such agreement between the two gentlemen one could argue that. (Regardless, Mr. Woof needs to provide all receipts for the software in that laptop and, of course, proof that the laptop was his.)
    Muziek: If you're a lawyer, you wont or shouldnt be one for long. Based on the facts that we know, advisng your client to completely fabricate an "understanding" that his liability was limited to insurance coverage is lame, unbeleivable and patently dishonest. No wonder woof got steamed. If you were simply preparing woof to expect such a defense, you should have expalined that and chose your words more carefully. No wonder lawyers are held in such contempt.

    eek
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by eekinsman
    Muziek: If you're a lawyer, you wont or shouldnt be one for long. Based on the facts that we know, advisng your client to completely fabricate an "understanding" that his liability was limited to insurance coverage is lame, unbeleivable and patently dishonest. No wonder woof got steamed. If you were simply preparing woof to expect such a defense, you should have expalined that and chose your words more carefully. No wonder lawyers are held in such contempt.

    eek
    I'm pretty sure she was playing devils advocate (pun intended ) and showing what the other party could come up with, so Woof is prepared..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by ttrundle
    well if you're referring to me, nice name calling from a "TreoCentral Moderator"....way to go dude.
    Normally I wouldnt label you one, but in this case your post certainly was cosidered trolling (both by me and others).

    If you didnt mean to troll watch your tone a bit, very easy to misinterpetate..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  5. #65  
    [QUOTE=
    Call Alfac and tell them you think they should do this. 55,000 agents would love you if you got them to do it.

    That looks like what I'll be doing. of course the lawyer above thinks I'd be wasting my time.[/QUOTE]


    I think the lawyer was talking about taking the Software/Laptop dealer to court.

    Well if the Laptop and Software are so tightly connected, the person who stole it will probably have no use for it, or be able to sale it. Maybe someone will just return it for a reward "if you placed a reward sticker on it".

    You made a post asking, "what would you do", but if someone disagrees with you point of view, you argue with them.

    Honestly, in a court of law you have no Chance to win.
    No stated or written agreement.
    Depreciation of the laptop.

    Look on the good side, since the laptop is used for business it become tax deductible. You can learn from your mistakes of 1.failing to create a proper backup plan "regardless of what the software make state". 2 failing to have you business insured against these things. 2 lending equipment without a verbal or written contract.

    A lot of the things you start in you post seem to confusing "your probably saying the same about my post LOL"
    Treo central need a Mobile spell check for Treo 600 posters
    Build Systems, Not Products
    <center>All Comments © Copyright Clarence C Middleton 2005-2006, All Rights Reserved<br /> <a href="mailto:ClarenceCM3@gmail.com">ClarenceCM3@gmail.com</a><br /><ahref ="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx">http://www.middleton.ath.cx</a><br /><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><img style="width: 124px; height: 54px;"src="http://www.middleton.ath.cx/photos/middletonlogo.gif" /></a></ahref><center />
  6. #66  
    should've been in my previous post

    you should take the laptop/software company to court. Doesn't this voilate some type of anti trustlaws or something "microsoft".

    55,000 agents X $3000 = $165,000,000.00
    I would consider a class action suit, "Hint" try and get a large laptop seller on you side .
    Build Systems, Not Products
    <center>All Comments © Copyright Clarence C Middleton 2005-2006, All Rights Reserved<br /> <a href="mailto:ClarenceCM3@gmail.com">ClarenceCM3@gmail.com</a><br /><ahref ="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx">http://www.middleton.ath.cx</a><br /><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><img style="width: 124px; height: 54px;"src="http://www.middleton.ath.cx/photos/middletonlogo.gif" /></a></ahref><center />
  7.    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by ClarenceCM3
    I think the lawyer was talking about taking the Software/Laptop dealer to court.
    The softare is owned by the insurance company that I sell for. What would be the point in taking them to court?

    Well if the Laptop and Software are so tightly connected, the person who stole it will probably have no use for it, or be able to sale it. Maybe someone will just return it for a reward "if you placed a reward sticker on it".
    I think you must be unaware that hard drives can be erased and reloaded. As far as the reward sticker idea that is good too. I am sure the theif will call me for a reward and say "I found it on the sidewalk" and ask for a reward. I'm not gonna hold my breath.
    You made a post asking, "what would you do", but if someone disagrees with you point of view, you argue with them.
    I didnt argue with anyone who disagreed with me. Please quote me on this. I took issue with those that didnt make suggestions to help me. but instead chose to take the side of the person who lost my property, at least as I perceived it.


    Honestly, in a court of law you have no Chance to win.
    No stated or written agreement.
    Depreciation of the laptop.
    As far as my no chance of winning, please tell me where your law degree is from and/or what experience you have in this exact situation that gives you advance knowledge of how my case may come out in court. You may think I wont win but I am sorry, but you cannot for certain say how anything will turn out.
    You also seem to be unaware of the binding nature of a verbal contract. Having a piece of paper doesnt guarantee a better agreement nor does the lack thereof insure a bad agreement.
    As to depreciation, I am not suing (if it ends uo there) for the value of the laptop. I am suing for the loss of use of the item in my business. In order to replace the use of my laptop it will cost about $3000. There are other value factors that are involved but would require you have a working understanding of how the company does business to understand. I am not going to try to get those points across.

    Look on the good side, since the laptop is used for business it become tax deductible. You can learn from your mistakes of 1.failing to create a proper backup plan "regardless of what the software make state". 2 failing to have you business insured against these things. 2 lending equipment without a verbal or written contract.
    ah yes the good side. 1.The software cannot be backed up. Please accept that ok. We are legally prohibited from doing so and the software is configured by asset id to only work on the laptop on which it was installed. Is that clear yet? 2. My property was insured against loss, but I do not plan to to file a claim against my insurance except as a last resort. Why should my premiums go up because of this guys lack of responsibility? 3.
    lending equipment without a verbal or written contract
    What are you talking about here? I had a verbal contract.


    Oh and I am not arguing with you.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  8.    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by ClarenceCM3
    should've been in my previous post

    you should take the laptop/software company to court. Doesn't this voilate some type of anti trustlaws or something "microsoft".

    55,000 agents X $3000 = $165,000,000.00
    I would consider a class action suit, "Hint" try and get a large laptop seller on you side .
    sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about. We license the software to use on laptops that are loaded and configured at time of purchase. It is owned by the company and we are paying to use it. But hey we could go ahead and sue the company that pays us commissions. Ya good idea.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about. We license the software to use on laptops that are loaded and configured at time of purchase. It is owned by the company and we are paying to use it. But hey we could go ahead and sue the company that pays us commissions. Ya good idea.
    Like I said Monoply.
    To sell our products you have to purchase our software, which come "bundled" with out laptops.

    Microsoft tried to bundle it's software with it's OS, which voliated Monoply and fair trade laws.

    allow competition for the purchase of the laptops.

    The government forced Microsoft to make a destinction between it's OS and browser, and medai player.

    Get a laptop seller on your side, that will give all 55,000 rep a speacial discount on laptops. then work with them to seperate the software from the laptop Legally. It save 55,000 reps money in the long term.

    why are you so negatvie.
    Build Systems, Not Products
    <center>All Comments © Copyright Clarence C Middleton 2005-2006, All Rights Reserved<br /> <a href="mailto:ClarenceCM3@gmail.com">ClarenceCM3@gmail.com</a><br /><ahref ="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx">http://www.middleton.ath.cx</a><br /><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><img style="width: 124px; height: 54px;"src="http://www.middleton.ath.cx/photos/middletonlogo.gif" /></a></ahref><center />
  10. #70  
    Maybe since the person you loaned the laptop too was you work, maybe he thinks the laptop was Company property.

    Due you get any type of commissions for his sales or growth. if so then the whole matter changes dramasticlly
    Build Systems, Not Products
    <center>All Comments © Copyright Clarence C Middleton 2005-2006, All Rights Reserved<br /> <a href="mailto:ClarenceCM3@gmail.com">ClarenceCM3@gmail.com</a><br /><ahref ="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx">http://www.middleton.ath.cx</a><br /><a href="http://www.middleton.ath.cx"><img style="width: 124px; height: 54px;"src="http://www.middleton.ath.cx/photos/middletonlogo.gif" /></a></ahref><center />
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    I didnt argue with anyone who disagreed with me. Please quote me on this. I took issue with those that didnt make suggestions to help me. but instead chose to take the side of the person who lost my property, at least as I perceived it.
    When I read Musieks posts in question, I didn't take it that he was giving the other person advise, rather that he was saying what they might use as an arguement. I think your anger over this situation has clouded your thinking. Not saying you shouldn't be pissed, but maybe you're looking at certain posts as hostile, when they're not meant to be taken as such.

    (Some others may have been a bit hostile, but I do believe that specific post by Muziek was just a heads up as what may be argued.)
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

    Remember: "Anyone that thinks the Treo should just work right out of the box, shouldn't own a Treo..."
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by jkoons
    These are just some things to think about from an ex police officer turned IT director:
    ...or an ex police officer turned IT manager:

    Quote Originally Posted by jkoons
    It is not entirely Dan's fault that the laptop was stolen; this was a situation beyond his control.
    I don't know about this... Common sense says don't leave valuables in your car. The laptop should have been on his person - not unattended in the car.

    Quote Originally Posted by jkoons
    The vehicle was entered by force to remove the laptop. If the laptop was in plain view, then it could be said that the vehicle was broken in to for the purpose of stealing just that. If the laptop was hidden or covered, I would say that absolves any blame on Dan’s behalf.
    I could have sworn the laptop was in plain view but maybe I misread?

    Quote Originally Posted by jkoons
    I believe that Dan did his due diligence by reporting the theft to the police and to his insurance company. The insurance company reimbursed him the $1000 which he immediately gave to you. I would also assume that the police have recorded the serial number of the laptop in NCIC in case the property turns up in the future.
    YAY for Dan. But he shouldn't be rewarded for that. That is the least he could have done. He should have had the laptop with him.

    BTW - how many things came accross the NCIC printer that you actually read??? Would you really have paid attention to stolen laptop?

    Quote Originally Posted by jkoons
    If the laptop was used in the course of your employment, I would seek reimbursement through your employer.
    Exactly - my employee's laptop was paid for out of the company's insurance and a replacement was ordered almost immediately (I made him sweat a little).

    I would say write up the incident for his file so that he fully understands the seriousness of the incident and move on.

    Of course, if you happen to have dinner at his house and you notice a similar laptop running his quake server...
  13. #73  
    Two questions.
    Why did you make the guy cash the check and pay you? Why didn't he just sign the check over to you?
    And secondly, why don't you turn in the claim to either the company or your own insurance? That's why you have it and that's why you make decisions about the size of your deductable. Why pay for replacement insurance or the low deductable if you are not going to use it?
    And a third question .... what was the one post in the middle of this thread which I read as the guy that you loaned the laptop to had stolen from his prevous employer "ollivetti"? Did I miss someting? If I didn't miss something and the guy previously stole from his employer, why did you lend to him? Isn't that one of those if it looks and quacks like a.. ..... it must be stories?
    You keep denying any responsibility and saying it is all the other guys fault.
    It is time to look in the mirror and see someone that is actually richer ...... with experience.
    Curt
    Curt

    StarTAC ST7868W w/ Motorola StarTAC Clipon Organizer; Treo 600; Treo 700P; Palm Pre Plus all on Verizon
  14. #74  
    Did Muziek delete her posts??
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by curtarmy
    You keep denying any responsibility and saying it is all the other guys fault.
    It is time to look in the mirror and see someone that is actually richer ...... with experience.
    Curt
    You must be on crack
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Did Muziek delete her posts??
    No:
    http://discuss.treocentral.com/showp...7&postcount=15
    Are you on crack too?
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    I try not to use when I'm on TC. I didnt realize that there were soo many posts that hers dropped to page 2
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  18. #78  
    Hey Woofy...I just thought about this. With what Muziek would have had to charge to give that guy the advise on how to screw you, he would have had enuff money to pay you the $2000
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    I try not to use when I'm on TC. I didnt realize that there were soo many posts that hers dropped to page 2
    geeez, one would think you would "use" while on TC, not the other way around
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Hey Woofy...I just thought about this. With what Muziek would have had to charge to give that guy the advise on how to screw you, he would have had enuff money to pay you the $2000
    Yeah, this is an excellent idea. Tell him you're getting it back one way or another. Surely if he can afford the legal fees to fight you in small claims court, he can afford to fork over the $2000, because when he loses, and he will lose (contract or no contract, he has a responsibility to not trash someone's personal property), he'll end up paying you the $2000, and both sets of legal fees. Ask him how he feels about $5000 instead of $2000.

    It absolutely amazes me with some of the feedback you've gotten on this. People in here are livid at the thought of paying PalmOne $60 for a cradle, but yet are giving you the advice to swallow a $2000 loss and deal with it. There's not one person in here who would do that. Don't tell me you would, I won't believe you anyhow, so don't waste your breath.

    And as far as this post:
    Quote Originally Posted by curtarmy
    You keep denying any responsibility and saying it is all the other guys fault.
    It is time to look in the mirror and see someone that is actually richer ...... with experience.
    Let's see how rich you feel when Woof snatches your 600 or 650 and eBays it to recover some of the $2000. According to you, you should accept responsibility that you allowed it to be stolen, and should feel pretty good about yourself being lighter in the pocket to replace it. Let's see how understanding you are then.
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