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  1. NRG
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    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    regarding imposing ourselves on the world, I can see your argument there
    Right we would not what China coming over here and trying to impose communism on us because they think it is the right thing to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    however, I also see a very real threat in the fact that certain nations such as iran and syria are clear and present dangers.
    I mean, what would you do in these cases? is it wise to allow such nations with histories with terrorism to proceed in developing nuclear capabilities unchecked?
    No, we should not let them go unchecked. I believe we should us the carrot and stick approach. Offer them something and if they get out of line have the whole world take action to put them back in line. In Iran's case I think it would be in our best interest to let things be with sanctions and such. Because as you are probaly aware Iran's young population is very hopeful for Democracy. This population in Iran makes up about 45% of total population. For stats look here . Now if we go in there (Iran) we have a real possibilty of screwing this shift in power to democracy over.

    Syria, I have to be honest I haven't payed much attention to them. So with that said I can not really comment on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    what would switzerland or germany or any other globally responsible nation do as opposed to the approach the US is taking?
    I think we need to embrace the UN, as stated countries above would do. On this one we need to get the rest of the world with us.

    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    do you share our concern with these regions of the world? should we let them achieve nuclear arms?
    Of course I do. But you know what really scares the hell out of me is the nuclear material in Russia that is under poor security at best. And the nuclear material that was looted from Tuwaitha (read more here ) and other places, seven in all (more here ). This is what REALLY scares me.

    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    dictatorships and the like, is it wise to allow these structures of govt to remain in place or is it wiser longterm to try to introduce better alternatives for people there who may be suffering horrifically under those regimes?
    I say we should never let people suffer, it was a damn shame about Dafur, Sudan. But we can't be the world police alone. We need a good amount of help here. We should again work with the world on these VERY serious matters.
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    sure we can't impose ourselves, but then on one hand if we look back in history has it ever been shown that leaving dictatorships in place has been a good thing?
    Nope, not that I can think of.
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    I understand your reservations with bush and that he might scare you with his expensive policies, but in another sense there is merit to removing malevolent govts from the world when they cumulatively only amount to a degradation of any progress the world is making on one level or another.
    Right but, we should not do this alone.
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    these are tough questions, ones that I believe only time will prove to be right or wrong.
    Right but we can guess can we not?
    Last edited by NRG; 01/26/2005 at 04:32 PM.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Sorry about the grammar error, obviously she was not running for national office. I'll rephrase it, because I want you to be happy with it:


    Boxer got more total votes than anyone except Bush and Kerry during the last elections.

    6.4 million to be exact.
    No, it doesn't make me happy, it was just an inaccurate statement, thats all. Don't get all defensive.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  3.    #23  
    nrg, I understand you feel we should embrace the UN.

    Umm. I will be frank here. I can't trust the UN. PERIOD. the oil for food scandal has completely blown the UN's credibility clean out of the ballpark for me.

    jan elgard (i believe is his name) pissed me off pretty well also.

    kofi annan and his son's involvement disgust me.

    that said, I know there are other officials inside the UN who may be credible, but NRG, they blew it there. how can we trust that working with them won't result in just another scandal / monopolization racquet all over again?

    I know your intentions regarding the UN are with the purpose of involving the rest of the world to help, but with "friends" like that, sorry no thanks.

    but I know where you are coming from.

    if only we could somehow form some organization where the checks and balances are such that this type of scandal is impossible.
    if that was possible, id be all for it. but until some integrity is restored in the UN, that group gets a thumbs down from me.
  4.    #24  
    pardon my french in the above post, its just that they have a long way to go in regaining trust with most people I think.
  5.    #25  
    I wholeheartedly agree with you in the fact that we need to get together with the rest of the world to keep potential threats at bay. but I think going through the UN is questionable.

    the unaccounted for material in russia is a worry, that is also true.
    im not sure what the best vehicle for cooperation in these situations would be, but im not convinced, as you can see, that the UN is the best route.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    No, it doesn't make me happy, it was just an inaccurate statement, thats all. Don't get all defensive.
    No problem, I was pleased to be able to reiterate about Boxer being extremely popular with a lot (not all) of us here in California.

    On an unrelated note, are you still in the 101st or civilian now? The 101st is a class unit for sure.

    I was with the 7th Infantry division in Monterey for several years but am enjoying civilian life now.

    Cheers
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    No problem, I was pleased to be able to reiterate about Boxer being extremely popular with a lot (not all) of us here in California.

    On an unrelated note, are you still in the 101st or civilian now? The 101st is a class unit for sure.

    I was with the 7th Infantry division in Monterey for several years but am enjoying civilian life now.

    Cheers
    Been out since 93, after a 9 year stint. And it doesn't matter, 101st, 7thID, Army is all class!! Hooah!
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  8. #28  
    Good work, NRG!

    treobk214: Interesting how a scandal sticks to the UN but Halliburton and Cheney always get a free pass no matter what. (Be sure to find a way to blame Clinton in your reply...)
  9.    #29  
    nudist. put some clothes back on. you're scaring us!

    anyone ever PROVE haliburton was scandalous?

    NO. sit down.
  10.    #30  
    its interesting how badly you want the bush/cheney admin. to be tied to a scandal, you want nothing more. so obvious.
    yet when the UN is exposed for such a heinous exploitation of HUMANTARIAN services, you make no big deal about it. why? because your boy kerry was ALL ABOUT the UN.
    if I were kerry, id be pretty damn embarrassed. here he supports them as if they were the answer, and look what they turned out to be! BS artists!
    thankyou and goodnight.
  11. #31  
    The UN scam appears to be real.
    The Hiliburton deal is suspicious because of the supposed ties to Cheney as VP, but you never tell us about the billions of dollars of business they did while Gore was VP. Or are we supposed to believe they were on the up and up, and totally legal when Cheney worked for them and as soon as he left, they became corrupt?
    Curt

    StarTAC ST7868W w/ Motorola StarTAC Clipon Organizer; Treo 600; Treo 700P; Palm Pre Plus all on Verizon
  12.    #32  
    if you want to lynch haliburton, prove the case. both administrations had ties to it. where are the investigations providing undisputed evidence that they are corrupt?
    if or when they are, are you going to condemn gore and clinton just the same as you are bush a cheney? clinton arranged for haliburton to carry out contracts in the middle east on several occasions.
    what's it gonna be? are you simply going to continue spinning this stuff? or will you consider both sides of involvement?
    im very curious.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Don't know about Teddy, but ol' Babs gets re-elected because of two reasons. San Francisco, and Los Angeles.

    Speaking of San Fran, in Leftism gone amock, they're debating a tax on shopping bags. Yep, go to the grocery store, and you'll have to pay $.17 for those bags. All in the name of the environment of course.
    Why do I get the idea you find this a bad idea?
    It actually works! In Holland they have been charging for plastic bags for years now and people adjust to it and bring a durable bag, end result: less waste and less oil used to make plastic bags.
    If you do buy a plastic bag at the supermarket you actualy get a good quality one you can reuse.
    Sure at first it is a change and annoying if you forget your bag, but it is a small price to pay IMHO, if I see the nr of plastic bags that get dumped here (UK) I wish more places would use this system..
    And yes, compared to a lot of things plastic bags are only a small part of the polution/oil use picture, but every little bit helps..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  14. #34  
    I find it a bad idea because it is yet another tax. Once upon a time, this country was very annoyed at taxes. I'm sure as a Brit, you're aware of what happened in Boston some 225 years ago.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I find it a bad idea because it is yet another tax. Once upon a time, this country was very annoyed at taxes. I'm sure as a Brit, you're aware of what happened in Boston some 225 years ago.
    I'm not a brit, am a purebred dutchy (see my avantar)
    In holland it is not a tax, it was an action taken by all the supermarket chains.

    Personally I don't care if it is a tax or private sector initiative, the idea behind it is good IMHO..
    Sometimes need to be pushed in the right direction a bit.. man goes for the easy way 9 out of 10, regardless the long term effect. I think it is good that the goverment sometimes protects people from their own stupidities..
    But my view of politics is different than that of the average american
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  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    I'm not a brit, am a purebred dutchy (see my avantar)
    In holland it is not a tax, it was an action taken by all the supermarket chains.

    Personally I don't care if it is a tax or private sector initiative, the idea behind it is good IMHO..
    Sometimes need to be pushed in the right direction a bit.. man goes for the easy way 9 out of 10, regardless the long term effect. I think it is good that the goverment sometimes protects people from their own stupidities..
    But my view of politics is different than that of the average american
    Sorry, was going by location
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Sorry, was going by location
    No worries, happens all the time
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  18. NRG
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    #38  
    Just a little something. Halliburton and Iran
  19. NRG
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    #39  
    Somemore here about Halliburton accounting. Here . And Somemore here . And here . Note these are just a few off the top of my head. Also all the noted above are different cases of shady actions by Halliburton. I have not even gotten into Kellog, Brown, and Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton. I think this proves just a lttle bit of a scandal somewhere.
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