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  1.    #1  
    20 Amazing Facts About Voting in the USA

    Did you know....
    80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies: Diebold and ES&S.
    http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...804landes.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold
    http://www.essvote.com/HTML/about/about.html


    There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the U.S. voting machine industry.
    http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0916-04.htm
    http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...804landes.html


    The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.
    http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...e_company.html
    http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...804landes.html


    The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in632436.shtml
    http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1647886


    Republican Senator Chuck Hagel used to be chairman of ES&S. He became Senator in a surprise upset, with votes counted by ES&S machines.
    http://www.motherjones.com/commentar...03/03_200.html
    http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...4fitrakis.html


    Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.
    http://www.blackboxvoting.com/module...article&sid=26
    http://www.hillnews.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx
    http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000896.php


    Senator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's vice-presidential candidates.
    http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_28/b3689130.htm
    http://theindependent.com/stories/05...w_hagel27.html


    Kenneth Blackwell co-chaired George Bush's Ohio election campaign. As Ohio secretary of state, he left no stone unturned to surpress the democratic vote.
    http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/113004Y.shtml#1
    http://www.freepress.org/departments...ay/19/2004/894
    http://67.15.90.110/article.pl?sid=04/10/29/1414219


    Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes. In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.
    http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
    http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/041...s/pfindex.html


    Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.
    http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm
    http://www.diebold.com/solutions/default.htm


    Exit polls are usually excellent predictors of election results. Reputable analyses could not find and explanation of the discrepancy between exit polls and results of the 2004 presidential election.
    http://ucdata.berkeley.edu
    http://www.buzzflash.com/alerts/04/1...screp_v00l.pdf
    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/23/in...a3c24b7e64fe49


    A Diebold subsidiary employed 5 convicted felons as senior managers and developers. These people helped write the central compiler computer code that counted 50% of the votes in 30 states.
    http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61640,00.html
    http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/301469.shtml


    Jeff Dean, senior programmer on Diebold's central compiler code, was convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree.
    http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevote.htm
    http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf


    Jeff Dean was served jail time for planting back doors in his client's accounting software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of 2 years.
    http://www.chuckherrin.com/hackthevote.htm
    http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf


    None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.
    http://www.globalexchange.org/update/press/2638.html
    http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...oc_elexoh.html


    California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad. Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it!
    (See the movie here: http://blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov)
    http://wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,63298,00.html
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4874190


    30% of all U.S. votes are carried out on unverifiable touch screen voting machines with no paper trail.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in632436.shtml


    All -- not some -- but all the voting machine errors detected and reported in Florida went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.
    http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65757,00.html
    http://www.yuricareport.com/Election...sBushIsOut.htm
    http://www.rise4news.net/extravotes.html
    http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.ph...rticle&sid=950
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm


    The governor of the state of Florida, Jeb Bush, is the President's brother.
    http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/talla...al/7628725.htm
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Oct29.html


    Serious voting anomalies in Florida -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated and experts are recommending further investigation.
    http://www.yuricareport.com/Election...sBushIsOut.htm
    http://www.computerworld.com/governm...,97614,00.html
    http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...thousands.html
    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm
    http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.html
    http://uscountvotes.org
  2. #2  
    ...and your point is what??
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    Hey clairegrrl, Happy New Year!
    HNY chickie...been in Telluride for Christmas. School starts next week
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    ...and your point is what??
    That he can copy things without giving credit for their source.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...+candidates%22
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    ...and your point is what??
    That no matter what he'll never get over the fact that Kerry lost and will continue to support any "Bush stole the election" theories that come along.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    ...and your point is what??
    The context of the post bears much gravitas and raises many questions. I think you are looking at it from an extreme angle (as I would expect you to, based on your previous posts involving similar subject matter). All I can say is any type of extreme is not good. Be fair.

    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    That he can copy things without giving credit for their source.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...+candidates%22
    To quote clairegrrl, "...and your point is what??"

    A request that the text be copied and distributed freely is entailed in the original text itself:

    Quote Originally Posted by nightweed.com
    "NOTE: Please copy the above list and distribute freely!"
    http://nightweed.com/usavotefacts.html
    .
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by skillllllz
    A request that the text be copied and distributed freely is entailed in the original text itself:
    Still, give credit where credit is due. And lighten up man. :-)
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by skillllllz
    The context of the post bears much gravitas and raises many questions. I think you are looking at it from an extreme angle (as I would expect you to, based on your previous posts involving similar subject matter). All I can say is any type of extreme is not good. Be fair.
    I think the black helicopters are all parked. I'm pretty sure that all election commissions at all levels of government have an equal numbers of R's and d's and that voting equipment isnt purchased according to who the candidates are.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    I think the black helicopters are all parked. I'm pretty sure that all election commissions at all levels of government have an equal numbers of R's and d's and that voting equipment isnt purchased according to who the candidates are.
    yeah, but you are part of that vast right wing conspiracy, so you have to say that.

    Felipe
    On the road to 5,000 posts
    Life is what happens between Firmware releases.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe
    yeah, but you are part of that vast right wing conspiracy, so you have to say that.

    oopps...I forgot
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Still, give credit where credit is due. And lighten up man. :-)
    Sorry, I know I seem like a sour-puss lately. I'm experiencing severe Treo withdrawl. "No 600 and no 650 make skillllllz go crazy"
    .
  12. #12  
    I find it interesting that when, in the Ukraine, the exit polls don't match the counted election results, and there is massive evidence of voter intimidation and fraud, people come out into the streets and protest by the hundreds of thousands, and the whole world (including the US) supports their decision to hold another vote, in the interests of preserving democracy.

    When it happens here - when the exit polls are massively different from the election results (in the whole country), and there is a ton of evidence of voter intimidation and fraud (in Ohio, and elsewhere), people who believe the election was stolen are told they need tin foil hats, to look for the black helicopters and that "exit polls aren't perfect."

    I don't know who won the election. I personally think it was Kerry, but that really is besides the point. If I can't trust the election results, do we really have a democracy (yeah, republic, you know what I mean)?

    Soon, it'll be too late to do anything about this election. But unless these things are brought up, discussed, and fixed, nothing will change for future elections. I can honestly say that unless something is done, I will not trust future election results. Unfortunately, the only real tool we have to check the counted results for errors are the "flawed" exit polls.
    Units - Unit conversion for webOS!
    Treo 180->270->600->650->Blackberry Pearl->Palm Pre
  13. #13  
    I dont recall seeing hundreds of thousands of protesters in the streets of any American city claiming voter fraud. I must not been watching the right tv station
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by skillllllz
    Sorry, I know I seem like a sour-puss lately. I'm experiencing severe Treo withdrawl. "No 600 and no 650 make skillllllz go crazy"
    "No tv and no beer make homer..."
    "Go Crazy?"
    "Don't mind if I do! AHBLAHAGHAHLAHBHGLAHAHGLAHAHGLBHGBBHHGALHGLA"
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    I dont recall seeing hundreds of thousands of protesters in the streets of any American city claiming voter fraud. I must not been watching the right tv station
    That's exactly my point. People here either don't care or are afraid they'll be called bitter, crazy, or paranoid (see posts #6 and #9 for examples or this) if they do claim fraud - even though the evidence for it here is just as strong as it was in the Ukraine.

    Also, there have been protests. Not nearly as big as in the Ukraine, but big enough that they probably deserved some media attention. Funny... our "liberal media" gave them exactly zero coverage.
    Units - Unit conversion for webOS!
    Treo 180->270->600->650->Blackberry Pearl->Palm Pre
  16. #16  
    Gotta tell ya...I think you're off base
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  17. Talldog's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by metsfan
    when the exit polls are massively different from the election results (in the whole country
    Maybe the exit polling was just bogus:

    http://www.mysterypollster.com/main/...leaked_pd.html
    Talldog
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Talldog
    Maybe the exit polling was just bogus:

    http://www.mysterypollster.com/main/...leaked_pd.html
    It certainly is possible. Given all the evidence I've seen, though, I'm more inclined to believe it was the result of fraud.
    Units - Unit conversion for webOS!
    Treo 180->270->600->650->Blackberry Pearl->Palm Pre
  19. #19  
    Exit polls are not scientific. You cannot force someone to take them and thus they have limited validity. Additionally, when you are trying to discern figures close to 50%-50% errors are magnified. If you read that link, you'll see there are many other reasons exit polls cannot be trusted. Standard polls do a better job of predicting results, and if those were off by 10% then yes, I'd be suspicious. Until then, I know too much statistics to raise a stink.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Exit polls are not scientific. You cannot force someone to take them and thus they have limited validity. Additionally, when you are trying to discern figures close to 50%-50% errors are magnified. If you read that link, you'll see there are many other reasons exit polls cannot be trusted. Standard polls do a better job of predicting results, and if those were off by 10% then yes, I'd be suspicious. Until then, I know too much statistics to raise a stink.
    No, standard polls do not. It's much easier to poll what people actually did than what they think they're going to do. In the past, up until 2000, exit polls were a very accurate predictor of election results.

    So if we can't trust exit polls, and have voting machines made by companies with Republican CEOs (and brothers), without paper trails, how exactly are we supposed to trust the election results? Obviously, that in and of itself is not proof of anything, but why do we let this happen? I can't trust voting results because I don't trust those companies. We need, at the very least, voting machines with paper trails. The Ohio "recount" that was just done included a lot of optical scan ballots (scanned by Diebold machines). Those are good. I think optical scan is the way we should do all voting (or like Oregon.. vote by mail). But the recount was all done on the machines... it was not a hand recount, so again, I can't trust the results. All they did was feed the ballots through the same machines that counted them the first time.

    The point is not to try to change the outcome of the past election (though I admit, it would be nice) - it's to ensure the accuracy of future ones.
    Units - Unit conversion for webOS!
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