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  1.    #1  
    this will be a curious question. I donated generously to the red cross - this is unimaginable.
    I hope the world of islam can show the world a warm heart.
    amongst all this fighting and war - I just hope there can also be compassion and humanity .
  2.    #2  
    here we are, pouring our hearts out, opening our generous wallets to try to assist the devastated victims of one of the worst natural disasters of the Modern Era.
    Near the beginning of every newscast, the Media is promintely criticizing President Bush and the Administration that he has not commented fast enough and has not given enough.
    Well, just how much Money has the Leader of Al Queda pledged for Tsunami Relief ?
    If a person who wants to be a "Leader" of people and have the World follow his ways, wouldn't this be a great opportunity for him ?Come on Bin Laden, what say you ?
    On a more positive note, wouldn't this be an even greater opportunity for President Bush to demonstrate to the people of the World just what type of thugs Bin Laden and Al Queda are made of ?
  3. #3  
    Why do you associate the terrorists known as Bin Laden and Al Queda with Muslims? Because these terrorists/murderers claim they are Muslim? Hah! You don't happen to also associate Catholicism with raping little boys, do you? If someone were to go and lead weak minded people to commit heinous crimes and then claim to do it in the name of Buddha does that mean Buddhists nations and communities are all a bunch of criminals? I think not.

    Just because someone believes and says they're a part of something doesn't mean they really are. Anyone who kills on purpose is faithless, regardless of what they believe. Real Muslims, whom know and abide by the teachings of the religion, are peaceful and want little to do with these murderers who claim to be Muslim. The sooner people like yourself get this through your/their skulls the sooner the world can begin to make progress...

    A wise man once said: "Place a hundred people in a room and ask those who are truly open minded to come forth... All one hundred will step forward, yet only a handful were just in doing so."
    .
  4.    #4  
    true. I see your point. my point is that I hope the world sees that america is not the terrible "infidel" that some radicals make them out to be.
    america is helping - generously. I hope those who oppose us see that we are helping those of their faith - and im not saying ALL muslims oppose us - but there is certainly anti-american sentiment among some muslims around the world.
    if they see that america is helping muslims around the world when it REALLY counts, while al qaeda simply let's them die, hopefully there will be a more concerted effort worldwide to stamp out or block bin laden and murderers like him.
    it would appear, as a result of the tsunami aid, who is truly of benevolent nature, and who is of the callous one, if there are any in doubt regarding which side is the evil one.
    I would think the way a tragedy such as THIS is handled would be the defining moment in the world as to who you want to gain allegiance with when the chips are down.
  5. #5  
    How about a "donation race" instead or the good old "arms race"? So far the US has commited US$ 350 million for tsunami disaster relief (US$ 1.2 per capita), Japan US$ 500 million (US$ 4 per capita), Switzerland US$ 22 million (US$ 3 per capita). Lets hope other nations will follow those good examples.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  6.    #6  
    hear hear!!
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    hear hear!!
    Actually, after a closer look: did you know that on average, the US are the least generous donor of the leading industrialized countries? Even including the private charitable donations does not change the total picture significantly.

    "The U.S. is the largest donor in terms of dollars spent,
    but it is the least generous based on its capacity to help,
    that is, in terms of the amount it spends as a share of its
    national income" (see e.g. Figure 1 in this report).
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    "The U.S. is the largest donor in terms of dollars spent,
    but it is the least generous based on its capacity to help,
    that is, in terms of the amount it spends as a share of its
    national income" (see e.g. Figure 1 in this report).
    So how should generosity be measured? In terms of how much it hurt the giver? or how much it helped the recipient?
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    So how should generosity be measured? In terms of how much it hurt the giver? or how much it helped the recipient?
    You seen to mis-understand clulup's motive. It has nothing to do with the sheer dollars that the US gives, or the total number of things that we give to, but simply another of his attempts to bash the US one more time. Sorry clulup. You pay for things with dollars and not with percentages or dollars per capita or based on gdp.

    Maybe the swiss cheesers are cheap...only giving $3 per capita when Japan is giving $4. Why dont you guys dig a little deeper and up the contribution to say $50 million US. Just a thought
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    So how should generosity be measured? In terms of how much it hurt the giver? or how much it helped the recipient?
    If Group A gives 4 $ per person and group B 1.2 $ per person, in my view group A is more generous. Not in your view?

    A correction by Gross Domestic Product simply takes into consideration that rich nations (high income per person) like Luxemburg, Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, Ireland, USA (see list here) can potentially give away more than poor countries. That's a fair assumption if you ask me. Not in your view?

    That a populous nation can donate large sums in absolute terms even without being generous at all seems quite obvious to me, even though some may not agree or not understand this point.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Maybe the swiss cheesers are cheap...only giving $3 per capita when Japan is giving $4.
    Well, if you call $3 per person cheap, what do you call the US $1.2 per person?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Actually, after a closer look: did you know that on average, the US are the least generous donor of the leading industrialized countries? Even including the private charitable donations does not change the total picture significantly.

    "The U.S. is the largest donor in terms of dollars spent,
    but it is the least generous based on its capacity to help,
    that is, in terms of the amount it spends as a share of its
    national income" (see e.g. Figure 1 in this report).
    Someone always finds a way to bash the US. Would it make the world happier if we just gave everything we had? Maybe we should just pay for everything for everyone.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Someone always finds a way to bash the US. Would it make the world happier if we just gave everything we had? Maybe we should just pay for everything for everyone.
    I simply pointed to the fact that other nations donate much more foreign aid than the US when looking at it on a per person basis. If you don't care, then don't care and don't flame me, after all, I didn't invent the data this is based on.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  14. #14  
    A few points after more consideration:

    1. Generosity *is* measured in terms of how the giver is hurt by the gift. However, that is not a per capita measurement, but a simple ratio of gift/source.

    2. Compassion is measured in terms of how the recipient is effected by the gift

    3. The level of generosity of the US should not be measured in terms of the response to this isolated event.

    4. The referenced report specifically measures percentage of budget dedicated to "development assistance" *not* percentage of expended to meeting the world's needs. Or as stated on the cover page:

    "The U.S. gives assistance
    to other countries for a variety of reasons, not all of them having directly to do with development:
    ■ National security and foreign policy interests—for example, to Uzbekistan and Pakistan in exchange for use of their territory for military
    operations in Afghanistan
    ■ Political development and stability—for conflict prevention, to build peace after conflict, and to strengthen failing states
    ■ Humanitarian crises—to countries and people suffering famine, recovering from a natural disaster, or displaced by conflict
    ■ Long-term development purposes—to help countries fight poverty, build roads, educate children, fight health crises, create small businesses,
    and spur economic growth"

    My brief review did not determine whether these measurements are direct donations, or if they included the funds given to the UN, above and beyond the direct donations.

    NOTE: According to the source, "The Center for Global Development (CGD) is an independent, non-profit organization dedicated to reducing global poverty and inequality and to making the forces of globalization work for the poor."

    Unfortunately, this goal fails to recognize causes/sources of poverty and rather aims for global parity. The fact of the matter is, even if all wealth was redistributed equally, it would not be long before there were rich and poor (and my guess is the demographic would look similar to today's distribution).
  15. #15  
    Well, would a more appropriate measure to be to figure out how much comes from a country total (i.e. not from the countries government). President Bush just asked the former President Bush (dad) and the former President Clinton to lead a fundraising drive in the US. I've donated already (a bit more than $4.00) and I'm sure many others will....I'm sure other countries are doing the same. So after all is said and done...it'd be interesting to see actually how much aid came in from different countries.
    CNN article - Ex-Presidents to lead private drive effort
  16.    #16  
    it amazes me that one calls america cheap after they donate more to the world in food and dollars than france, germany and switzerland COMBINED.
    clulup, I really have to say that that statement is typical of all those nitpickers who do nothing but try to undercut EVERYTHING the us does. EVERYTHING.
    You are never ever satisfied. no matter how generous or how compassionate we are, you find something to try picking fights with.
    america has saved the world's *** so MANY times in one way or another, yet people go on blaming for everything - like being to blame for TECTONIC PLATE MOVEMENT -EARTHQUAKES!!
    its just amazing. so even if we donate millions, its not enough? japan, I guess, with their $500 million, is nothing but a damn miser, huh? stingy bastards - can only come up with $500 million - what cheapskates, huh?
    hey clulup, how much aid comes from the rich *** muslims? punch in the numbers for THEM yet?
    even though we give MORE to them then they give to their own people yet they still terrorize us, its curious isn't it?
    oh no america is stingy. maybe we should simply give nothing at all - we would get the exact same thanks from the world that you are giving here.
    maybe america should simply not even bother - because thankless fools like this go around giving SO MUCH encouragement to us to go out and lend a hand to those who need it.
    WHAT ARROGANCE!!!!!!!!
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    hey clulup, how much aid comes from the rich *** muslims? punch in the numbers for THEM yet?
    even though we give MORE to them then they give to their own people yet they still terrorize us, its curious isn't it?
    Earlier in this thread you agreed with my point about your association of muslims with terrorists being improper and unproductive, and here you are blatantly engaging in that very same arrogant behavior... quite astonishing! Tell me treobk214, is the priesthood still all about raping little boys or is it about faith? I won't lie, you're narrow mind disgusts me.
    .
  18.    #18  
    and you are an a**hole
  19. #19  
    is this a NY NJ thing?
  20.    #20  
    to me, skillz, it is YOU WHO IS NAUSEATINGLY ARROGANT.

    "Tell me treobk214, is the priesthood still all about raping little boys or is it about faith?"

    im not religious. there you go again pulling the "faith-based attack" trick out of the bag. nice try.

    You tell me, is the priesthood all about raping little boys, skillz or is it all about faith? you tell me, skillz.
    Last edited by treobk214; 01/03/2005 at 11:23 AM.
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