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  1. #2  
    Where will it end? It seems the only organizations who have the right to free speach are the ones that begin with ANTI.

    We are witnessing the degeneration of humanity!
  2. #3  
    OH PULEEZ! Would you christies give it a break already!


    Local Paper's Story

    "But critics say Williams is taking religion out of context.

    One of his handouts is titled, "What Great Leaders Have Said About the Bible." It quotes nine U.S. presidents singing the praises of the Bible, followed by a quote from Jesus Christ.

    "It's just out of context," said Madison. "You're putting these presidents in the same context as Jesus."

    Some parents at Stephens Creek School say conservative media outlets have twisted the story to make the district look silly. Plus, they feel that Williams has crossed a line -- one that fifth-graders may be too naive to know has been breached.

    "This is not about teaching history, this is about indoctrination," said Armineh Noravian, whose child was formerly in one of Williams' classes.

    In a school district where 45 languages are spoken, Noravian asked, "what would happen if someone whose religion is not a majority religion would be doing this? It isn't OK (for a teacher) to make a kid feel like he isn't like you."

    Dorothy Pickler informally requested that her fifth-grade child not have Williams as a teacher this year.

    "Because what he's doing isn't teaching history," she said. "If you were teaching at a church school, that would be great. But he isn't." "



    Who is Nature's God?
  3. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    OH PULEEZ! Would you christies give it a break already!


    Local Paper's Story

    "But critics say Williams is taking religion out of context.

    One of his handouts is titled, "What Great Leaders Have Said About the Bible." It quotes nine U.S. presidents singing the praises of the Bible, followed by a quote from Jesus Christ.

    "It's just out of context," said Madison. "You're putting these presidents in the same context as Jesus."

    Some parents at Stephens Creek School say conservative media outlets have twisted the story to make the district look silly. Plus, they feel that Williams has crossed a line -- one that fifth-graders may be too naive to know has been breached.

    "This is not about teaching history, this is about indoctrination," said Armineh Noravian, whose child was formerly in one of Williams' classes.

    In a school district where 45 languages are spoken, Noravian asked, "what would happen if someone whose religion is not a majority religion would be doing this? It isn't OK (for a teacher) to make a kid feel like he isn't like you."

    Dorothy Pickler informally requested that her fifth-grade child not have Williams as a teacher this year.

    "Because what he's doing isn't teaching history," she said. "If you were teaching at a church school, that would be great. But he isn't." "



    Who is Nature's God?

    As your post clearly points out... This country was founded by, as you put it, christies! If you don't like it....LEAVE!!!!!!!

    You don't see me in Asia complaining about all the Budists.

    Not only is christianity PART of our history, it is the fundamental origin of the American Government. To say its not history is an extremly ignorant comment. And anyone who believes it, is obviously .... well ya know.....STUPID!
  4.    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    OH PULEEZ! Would you christies give it a break already!
    "christies"

    LOL
  5. #6  
    obviously you didn't read the article nor did you read the link to Who is nature's god. So before you start telling people to leave, why don't your educate yourself, and NOT just the parts of history which support your irrationality.

    christies, gotta love em.
  6. #7  
    I read the post.
    The fact that historical documents which consistently make reference to god exist, makes it easy for even the most feeble mind to realize Chrisianity is our history! If you can't see that....
  7. #8  
    I realize that, in the interest of self preservation, your lifestyle won't let you believe in christianity. But to expect America to change so you can sleep better is rediculous!
  8. #9  
    Why in your god's name do you think the Founding Father's made the point of stating the US Gov't shal lnot endorse a particular religion.

    Are you seriously ignoring the fact that this teacher is USING history to preach to children.
  9. #10  
    First of all...The founding fathers said US Government shall not persecute any religion.

    The tolerence of other people's beliefs does not mean I have to give up mine!

    Furthermore the Constitution gaurantess the Freedom OF Religion, not the Freedom FROM Religion.

    Again just in case the concept is difficult.... The tolerence of other people's beliefs does not mean I have to give up mine!

    When did the end result of a child become the product of what a teacher said?

    I could care less what the teachers motives are. My teachers constantly told me that I came from monkeys, and I sure that my son will be taught the same thing. My son however will realize that, while those teachers may in fact be direct decendants of ape's, that he himself is a child of God!

    Bottom line is this.... If those people who complain about Historical Documents making reference to God, believe that the school system will leave a deeper impression on thier children than they themselves will, then they have no business raising children, and certainly shouldn't be doing it in an envoirnment that is not conducive to thier own particular beliefs. Once again to expect the American culture to change to fit thier own values is absurd.

    Its like going to the Jerusalem telling people they cant be Jewish.
  10. #11  
    My son however will realize that, while those teachers may in fact be direct decendants of ape's, that he himself is a child of God!
    Whoops! Nevermind.

    Have a nice day.
  11. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    Its like going to the Jerusalem telling people they cant be Jewish.
    No, it's like going to Jerusalem and telling people they HAVE TO BE Jewish. (Or at the very least, have to say Jewish prayers, even if they don't believe them.)

    Huge difference.
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  12. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Why in your god's name do you think the Founding Father's made the point of stating the US Gov't shal lnot endorse a particular religion.

    Are you seriously ignoring the fact that this teacher is USING history to preach to children.
    Wasnt aware that teachers were part of the government.

    In new York city schools this year any mention of Christ or and Christian symbols is forbidden. However all other religious symbols are allowed. How is that fair?
  13. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Wasnt aware that teachers were part of the government.
    If they're teaching in public schools, they're part of the government.
    In new York city schools this year any mention of Christ or and Christian symbols is forbidden. However all other religious symbols are allowed. How is that fair?
    It's not. It's ridiculous, and stupid, if true. Do you have a link to back it up? (Note: My mother teaches in NYC; I'll find out.)
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  14. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Wasnt aware that teachers were part of the government.

    In new York city schools this year any mention of Christ or and Christian symbols is forbidden. However all other religious symbols are allowed. How is that fair?

    Yup thats my point. Clearly the constitution is failing to protect christians from persecution.

    If it doesn't stop, someday we might be drawing fish in the sand again.
  15. #16  
    by allowing the declaration of independence to be studied in classrooms, where does it say that anyone HAS to be ANYTHING?

    i cannot believe we have sunk to such a ridiculous level as to make even the declaration of independence an issue. geezus. now its getting truly nauseating

    can these people focus on achieving something worthwhile in their lives rather than trying to tear down every blessed tradition that makes up america?!

    anti - this, anti- that. this offends this, that offends that.

    you know what? for people who scream against offending anyone, they are some of the most offensive types of people today.

    the aclu and similar groups, if given their way, would simply tear down any and all traditions ever established in american history. just get rid of it all.

    leave nothing standing that ever had stood for anything in america.

    aclu = anti-america. period
  16. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by metsfan
    No, it's like going to Jerusalem and telling people they HAVE TO BE Jewish. (Or at the very least, have to say Jewish prayers, even if they don't believe them.)

    Huge difference.
    Huh???

    You are mistaken. I have never been forced to be christian or (at the very least pray). However now I am being told that I cant pray. SEE the difference?

    Even when morning prayer was common place in public schools, nobody was forced to participate.
  17. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    by allowing the declaration of independence to be studied in classrooms, where does it say that anyone HAS to be ANYTHING?
    I didn't say it did, and I don't know enough details of the case. Of course the declaration of independence should be allowed to be studied in school. It should be used to teach history, though, not religion. Again, I don't know anything about this case specifically.
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  18. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    Huh???

    You are mistaken. I have never been forced to be christian or (at the very least pray). However now I am being told that I cant pray. SEE the difference?

    Even when morning prayer was common place in public schools, nobody was forced to participate.
    You can pray all you want: at home. School is just not the place for it.
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  19. #20  
    Yup thats my point. Clearly the constitution is failing to protect christians from persecution.

    If it doesn't stop, someday we might be drawing fish in the sand again.
    HAHAHAAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAAH!!!!


    treobk214, if you can't admit that this guy is trying to preach his religion using historical documents (some of which are VERY questionable in their historic value) then you just don't want to see the truth. Igniting on "They Want to Ban The Declaration!!" is naive in this case.

    The ACLU is one of the greatest institutions in this country. I think the fact that they have represented the Klan to protect their rights to free speech, shows they are not part of a partisan agenda.

    sxtg, you are free to say a prayer to yourself in a public school. The teacher is NOT allowed to lead a prayer. I think you know the difference.
    Last edited by ToolkiT; 12/09/2004 at 09:43 AM. Reason: took out insulting remark
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