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  1.    #1  
    Since the Pledge of Allegiance and The Lord's Prayer are not allowed in most public schools anymore because the word "God" is mentioned....a kid in Arizona wrote the following NEW School prayer.
    Now I sit me down in school
    Where praying is against the rule
    For this great nation under God
    Finds mention of Him very odd.
    If Scripture now the class recites,
    It violates the Bill of Rights.
    And anytime my head I bow
    Becomes a Federal matter now.
    Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
    That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
    The law is specific, the law is precise.
    Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.
    For praying in a public hall
    Might offend someone with no faith at all.
    In silence alone we must meditate,
    God's name is prohibited by the state.
    We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
    And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
    They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
    To quote the Good Book makes me liable.
    We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
    And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
    It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,
    We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.
    We can get our condoms and birth controls,
    Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
    But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
    No word of God must reach this crowd.
    It's scary here I must confess,
    When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
    So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
    Should I be shot; My soul please take!
    Amen


    ya know, this hits the nail SQUARE on the head!!! and a kid wrote it!
    whoever he is, I applaud him.
  2. #3  
    "Prayer has no place in the public schools, just like facts have no place in organized religion." - School Superintendent on "The Simpsons" episode #100

    Get over yourself christy!
  3. #4  
    yes a Simpsons charaters opinion matters alot. What are you guys afraid of anyway. So much for tolerance.
  4.    #5  
    tell me folks, what do you plan to use to shape your kids values when they are at school?

    media? video games? movies?

    get over yourselves, I say.

    just keep eroding all of our traditional values away and watch our newest generations simply degenerate into hapless wanderers driven by basic instincts alone - not by higher values that might shape the higher ego of an impressionable mind.

    yep, just erode the hell out of all that america was based on, and let's just sit and watch what happens, shall we?

    you think lack of values in public schools runs rampant now, you just watch and see what happens.

    it WILL be interesting.
  5. #6  
    This is a nation of many faiths. But of course, you're right. Let's make yours the official religion. (btw, positive morals can be debated without a deity)
  6. #7  
    School prayer and saying God in the pledge, is not going to solve the problems with our primary public education by a long shot. If thats all that is going to be focused on over the next four years, our educational system is going to suffer.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 11/30/2004 at 01:37 PM.
  7. #8  
    There are plenty private schools that cater to specific religions. If you believe religion during school time is essential to shaping your child then you have the option to send him/her off to one. If you're sending your child off to public school then you must respect the fact that not everyone there is going to have the same traditions, culture, beliefs, etc. If you preach from one angle then you must preach from all other angles out of fairness and respect to all other faiths. If you don't care for or respect other faiths, then congratulations... you are a bigot.
    .
  8. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    tell me folks, what do you plan to use to shape your kids values when they are at school?
    tb214, having a deep and abiding faith I believe it is my responsibility to shape my kid's values ... not her school's. If we do a great job at home, then our kids will carry OUR values to school, not values set forth by someone else. Sadly, my observation and experiences have shown that most parents really don't want to spend the time to do this with their kids.

    The teachers' job is to instruct on math, science, language, history and the arts, to name but a few. Values can't be taught by someone that is trying to juggle 30 kids in a classroom. Values need to be taught at home. Your personal belief system (faith and values) should come from you and your church. Just my .02.
    << My command as we escape Palm HQ with a new Pre 3>>.

    Treo 300 >> Treo 600 >> Treo 650 >> Treo 755 >> Instinct >> Pre- >> TouchPad
  9. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by tjd414
    tb214, having a deep and abiding faith I believe it is my responsibility to shape my kid's values ... not her school's. If we do a great job at home, then our kids will carry OUR values to school, not values set forth by someone else. Sadly, my observation and experiences have shown that most parents really don't want to spend the time to do this with their kids.

    The teachers' job is to instruct on math, science, language, history and the arts, to name but a few. Values can't be taught by someone that is trying to juggle 30 kids in a classroom. Values need to be taught at home. Your personal belief system (faith and values) should come from you and your church. Just my .02.
    well said.
  10. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by tjd414
    tb214, having a deep and abiding faith I believe it is my responsibility to shape my kid's values ... not her school's. If we do a great job at home, then our kids will carry OUR values to school, not values set forth by someone else. Sadly, my observation and experiences have shown that most parents really don't want to spend the time to do this with their kids.

    The teachers' job is to instruct on math, science, language, history and the arts, to name but a few. Values can't be taught by someone that is trying to juggle 30 kids in a classroom. Values need to be taught at home. Your personal belief system (faith and values) should come from you and your church. Just my .02.
    Excellent!
  11.    #12  
    "congratulations, you're a bigot!"

    what a revelation! you know, what makes someone a bigot when all they want is to be able to freely express his or her faith. all the other religions are free to express themselves - no one is claiming damage from seeing a muslim expression of faith in schools, hindu expression of faith, jewish, etc.

    I thought we were about tolerance of ALL religions. now christianity is the biggest offender of all? wow. and WE are the bigots? everyone else can express whatever faiths they like without issue, but god forbid, ( ooh I said that terrible word - GOD ) anyone expresses christian traditions and suddenly there's irreversible damage.

    please, where is the damage being done? what child is being harmed by a christmas song?
    or a little prayer?

    hey, if you don't agree with the prayer, you don't have to participate. but these are pillars of our traditions that have been set down in place for 200 years, now suddenly people can come in and uproot all of that heritage?

    " bigots " what an amazing stance to take against people who are simply standing up for their historical heritage and value traditions!

    not that I am a holy roller, by no means do I profess that I am a devout churchgoer or "biblethumper" , but the basics of religion teaches acceptance and tolerance, do we think tolerance is going to flourish if we rip all of that out of our educational systems?

    baffling logic.
  12. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    This is a nation of many faiths. But of course, you're right. Let's make yours the official religion. (btw, positive morals can be debated without a deity)
    This is not true and is just basic philosophy. Citing morality without God really makes no sense.

    Here is a good article to clear it up:
    http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billc.../meta-eth.html


    " The modern age, more or less repudiating the idea of a divine lawgiver, has nevertheless tried to retain the ideas of moral right and wrong, not noticing that, in casting God aside, they have also abolished the conditions of meaningfulness for moral right and wrong as well.

    Thus, even educated persons sometimes declare that such things are war, or abortion, or the violation of certain human rights, are 'morally wrong,' and they imagine that they have said something true and significant.

    Educated people do not need to be told, however, that questions such as these have never been answered outside of religion.

    Contemporary writers in ethics, who blithely discourse upon moral right and wrong and moral obligation without any reference to religion, are really just weaving intellectual webs from thin air; which amounts to saying that they discourse without meaning."





    I'll ask again on what basis do you determine what is moral and immoral.
  13.    #14  
    you say values should come from the home. and you've correctly observed that many families sadly fail to deliver these values.

    well, if kids can't even get an inkling of values taught by something so small and harmless, I stress, HARMLESS, as a simple prayer at school, and they have bloody video games, reckless celebrities, horrible movies and tv shows to all assimilate into their interpretation of right and wrong, how, if you will excuse the expression, have a "prayer" of finding it anywhere?

    with the "anything goes" society that these folks are helping to shape, do you honestly feel comfortable with those sentiments?

    I have to just shake my head at these arguments
  14.    #15  
    educated people don't need to be told right from wrong, moral from immoral?

    yeah? well why is crime, murder, violence on the rise? if people are so divinely intelligent, why is it thay society seems to be cracking at the seams here?

    columbine, knife attacks in school, guns, drugs, etc.

    not that religion would CURE all of that, but I can't imagine it not at least helping in some way there.
    people find comfort in faith. take that away from young minds , and what do they have?

    even LESS to help them draw the right conclusions in life.

    well you say values can be taught at home. yes, but you need extensions of those values to help reinforce them in the young mind. life is tough enough for kids these days. and you want to give them even LESS to grow up with in the area of positive reinforcement?

    unbelievable
  15. #16  
    please, where is the damage being done? what child is being harmed by a christmas song? or a little prayer?
    Yeah, and I wonder what kind of out cry would happen if Little Jonny Thumper were made to sing Hannuka songs, or Jehovah Witness Songs or recite an Islam prayer in school. Girls in veils for a week, in the name of cultural awareness, I am sure Mrs. thumper would have no issues with it.
  16.    #17  
    "mr thumper, huh?".... talk about a bigot, calguna!
    you've just give a fantastic example of a bigot right there!

    listen, even if there were jewish songs sung in school, who would have a problem with it? so what! freedom of expression!
    have you ever heard of an issue where " mr or mrs thumper" made a federal case about a muslim tradition or a jewish song!?

    PLEASE
  17. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    .... (btw, positive morals can be debated without a deity)
    On what basis? Or, more importantly, to what end?
  18. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    educated people don't need to be told right from wrong, moral from immoral?

    yeah? well why is crime, murder, violence on the rise? if people are so divinely intelligent, why is it thay society seems to be cracking at the seams here?

    columbine, knife attacks in school, guns, drugs, etc.

    not that religion would CURE all of that, but I can't imagine it not at least helping in some way there.
    people find comfort in faith. take that away from young minds , and what do they have?

    even LESS to help them draw the right conclusions in life.

    well you say values can be taught at home. yes, but you need extensions of those values to help reinforce them in the young mind. life is tough enough for kids these days. and you want to give them even LESS to grow up with in the area of positive reinforcement?

    unbelievable

    I believe you completely missed the point of my post which is making a moral statement in the absence of the recognition of a moral law giver makes no sense. In other words, saying there is no God but war is wrong is an absurd statement.
  19. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    On what basis? Or, more importantly, to what end?
    Exactly, the point of my response to dathomas. I've asked this question numerous times on this board and no one responds. Maybe you'll have better luck. Notice my previous post. Pretty much saying the same thing you are.
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