Page 7 of 13 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 249
  1. #121  
    Married parents being the norm?
    I don't think that is the case anymore..

    I have to say that in the US there is a much stronger push to get married than in Europe. In Europe it is perfectly acceptable to be living together and have kids. So the kids feel normal too.
    So it actually be that by your attitude you may be part of the problem yourself..

    Also marriage isnt the only way to proof your commitment, nor is marriage any proof of commitment, just look at britney spears for example..

    Also you are making a point for gay marriage, how else can a gay relationship give structure and assurance for the stewardship of our future?
    But then again you probably think homosexuality is a sin and technically gay people should be killed according to the bible...

    http://www.thebricktestament.com/the...y/lv18_22.html


    Finally a though, with the land of the freedom for all, why do people need to get married so society gets assurance they can raise a family? doesnt that breech the personal freedom?
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    Surely those of you arguing on the side that moral values do not require a higher power to have relevance can see this.
    Which tread was that discussed in?
    I found something interesting in the (brick )bible
    http://www.thebricktestament.com/the...s/dt29_19.html

    Dt 29:20
    '...Yahweh will not pardon him. His wrath shall burn against him.'

    So why isnt this happening? just wondering..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    when one lays down his/her life for another.

    That is more than two people who say they are in love.
    say they are in love is not the same as are in love..

    ps.
    your previous message 'Jesus said there is no greater love than ' got scrambled, what did you want to say?
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Married parents being the norm?
    I don't think that is the case anymore..
    I think I alluded to that, but marriage is still considered the norm for a family even though the numbers may no longer bear out our perception of the norm. This is a tragedy in itself, but one that should be expected in a free society such as ours where liberal progressivism is allowed to thrive unfettered.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    So it actually be that by your attitude you may be part of the problem yourself..
    No it is not my attitude. Societal norms are what they are. I am only pointing them out as they are today, but this is changing faster and faster as we as a society buy into attitudes like you are professing here. How I think about it or my attitude towards it will have little effect to stem the tide of progressive liberalism.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Also marriage isnt the only way to proof your commitment, nor is marriage any proof of commitment, just look at britney spears for example..
    I don't think I said it was. I said that it was a means to declare ones commitment and in so doing helps to assure society, and makes it more difficult to run away from the relationship. We have a ridiculously high divorce rate, but I bet low compared with the breakup rate of unmarried couples.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Also you are making a point for gay marriage, how else can a gay relationship give structure and assurance for the stewardship of our future?
    But then again you probably think homosexuality is a sin and technically gay people should be killed according to the bible...
    Wow, where did that come from? Without trying to defend against such a rude and ignorant stab, let me just say that the stewardship I am referring to is entrusting to a husband and wife the responsibility to raise the children who will become our future. I put the gay relationship on par with the unmarried couple, the only difference is that we are talking about having and raising children and the gay couple cannot do that. If you are referring to adoption, I personally would only allow adoption as a last resort to unmarried couples be they gay or straight. There should and I think is a precedence for adoption..

    1. Married heterosexual couple
    2. Unmarried heterosexual couple
    3. Unmarried gay female couple.
    4. Unmarried gay male couple.
    5. Single parent. (this is a tough one)

    If we as a society decide to accept same sex marriage then the married female and male gay couples would be 2 and 3 respectfully. Given the choice I would much rather see a married gay couple raising a child than an unmarried heterosexual couple.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Finally a though, with the land of the freedom for all, why do people need to get married so society gets assurance they can raise a family? doesnt that breech the personal freedom?
    Toolkit, come on. You can't be serious. Tell me you are arguing for arguments sake here.
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Which tread was that discussed in?
    You have a short memory. Early in this thread you guys were arguing whether or not you need to believe in God to have a moral compass.
  6. #126  
    On my Treo, so I'm not quoting. But as to introduction of "gay marriage" to the thread...a few comments (which I'm sure won't surprise our regular listeners)

    1. homosexual sex can not result in procreation
    2. a brief anatomical assessment shows why
    3. Biblically informed marriage is specifically and exclusively male to female
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Dt 29:20
    '...Yahweh will not pardon him. His wrath shall burn against him.'

    So why isnt this happening? just wondering...
    You are not the first to pose this question. It came up in the early days of christendom. One of the early leaders, provided this observation:

    "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    You are not the first to pose this question. It came up in the early days of christendom. One of the early leaders, provided this observation:

    "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)
    Can you explain what that means?
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    I think I alluded to that, but marriage is still considered the norm for a family even though the numbers may no longer bear out our perception of the norm. This is a tragedy in itself, but one that should be expected in a free society such as ours where liberal progressivism is allowed to thrive unfettered.
    Considered by whom I ask myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    Wow, where did that come from? Without trying to defend against such a rude and ignorant stab,
    My appologies, wasnt ment that way, was ment tongue in cheeck.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    There should and I think is a precedence for adoption..

    1. Married heterosexual couple
    2. Unmarried heterosexual couple
    3. Unmarried gay female couple.
    4. Unmarried gay male couple.
    5. Single parent. (this is a tough one)
    Just curious, but why would a gay female couple be better than a male one?
    And how about a single parent with a good backup system? where would that end up in.


    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    Toolkit, come on. You can't be serious. Tell me you are arguing for arguments sake here.
    Part of me is, but also there is part that wonders what it is anybodies bussiness how I form my family..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Ah, then I misinterpreted you, we agree, losing your virginity isnt that big a deal as some people make it..
    We agreeed in the context of the discussion but I must clarify.
    In actuality, yielding one's virginity is a HUGE deal...when done in the context of Biblically-informed marriage. In that context the passage of virginity is a consummation of the covenant agreement between the husband and wife.
    With this act the wife communicates that she receives the sole man who will enjoy her garden. The husband communicates that he will entrust his life-yielding seed to no other womb. And each communicates to their commitment to seek to provide the greatest pleasure to the other with each encounter so that neither would ever regret the covenant decision.
    It doesn't get any better!
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Considered by whom I ask myself.
    Obviously not by you, but I think it is safe to say that the majority of young folks contemplating their future sees themselves getting married and raising a family. This may not turn out to be their reality but I doubt many women look forward to the day they can find a man to shack up with and raise illegitimate children.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Just curious, but why would a gay female couple be better than a male one?
    And how about a single parent with a good backup system? where would that end up in.
    Just my personal opinion based on what I know about males in general. Women, gay or otherwise, are more willing and able to commit to a relationship than men; ergo a lesbian relationship has a better chance of lasting than a homosexual one.

    With regard to the single parent with a good backup system, you are no longer keeping things equal as you would then have to say all the combinations have good backup systems in which case the order of the list remains the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Part of me is, but also there is part that wonders what it is anybodies bussiness how I form my family..
    We are not talking about whether you are allowed to raise children outside marriage. We are only discussing what we consider the optimum environment for raising children. It is entirely up to you and probably nobody's business how you decide in the end to raise a family.

    Hmmmm.... "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
    --From Hamlet (III, ii, 239)
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Can you explain what that means?
    Remember that your original question regarded why we don't see God's wrath burning towards people today.
    The quote I provided was to discourage the thinking that because God doesn't rain down fire whenever we stray from the good path, he must not really care what we do. Or, he isn't going to do anything about it.
    God's word is clear that evil will be punished. what we sow we will reap. However, that same word reveals the extreme patience of God to give us time to experience His grace and mercy (and thus not His wrath).
    Despite some religious leaders' efforts to control behavior with dread, God's desire for our ggod is clearly communicated in scripture. Also communicated is His commitment to our right to decie how to live. Equally communicated is the consequences of our choices.
    That we don't see immediate punishment is not a sign of no consequences. It is a sign of God's desparate desire for each of us to have plenty opportunity to live in agreement with the principles and guidelines He prescribes.
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Remember that your original question regarded why we don't see God's wrath burning towards people today.
    The quote I provided was to discourage the thinking that because God doesn't rain down fire whenever we stray from the good path, he must not really care what we do. Or, he isn't going to do anything about it.
    God's word is clear that evil will be punished. what we sow we will reap. However, that same word reveals the extreme patience of God to give us time to experience His grace and mercy (and thus not His wrath).
    Despite some religious leaders' efforts to control behavior with dread, God's desire for our ggod is clearly communicated in scripture. Also communicated is His commitment to our right to decie how to live. Equally communicated is the consequences of our choices.
    That we don't see immediate punishment is not a sign of no consequences. It is a sign of God's desparate desire for each of us to have plenty opportunity to live in agreement with the principles and guidelines He prescribes.
    Thats not what Deuteronomy 28 says... Are you saying peter is contradicting that? I'm getting more and more confused..
    Either you take the bible litterally or you dont, but if you do, you'll find that many things are simply not happening..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    We agreeed in the context of the discussion but I must clarify.
    In actuality, yielding one's virginity is a HUGE deal...when done in the context of Biblically-informed marriage. In that context the passage of virginity is a consummation of the covenant agreement between the husband and wife.
    With this act the wife communicates that she receives the sole man who will enjoy her garden. The husband communicates that he will entrust his life-yielding seed to no other womb. And each communicates to their commitment to seek to provide the greatest pleasure to the other with each encounter so that neither would ever regret the covenant decision.
    It doesn't get any better!
    Beautifully put.

    I have heard it said that Virginity is a spiritual attribute, not a physical one.
  15. #135  
    one more thing, you never explained why a hetero couple would make better parents.
    There are heteros that are terrible with kids and gays that are great with kids. Why does that change if you put 2 of them together??
    I get the feeling you think hetero's are superior to gays in general, is that right?
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    one more thing, you never explained why a hetero couple would make better parents.
    There are heteros that are terrible with kids and gays that are great with kids. Why does that change if you put 2 of them together??
    I get the feeling you think hetero's are superior to gays in general, is that right?
    Toolkit, you just cannot get your head around this can you.

    We are not discussing who makes better parents. It is impossible to predict whether any given individual will make a good parent. Only time as a parent will tell.

    What is at issue is what is the best environment for raising children with regard to parental makeup. When we are talking about gay couples we most likely must talk adoption. So to compare apples and apples, we must look at a gay couple adopting vs a heterosexual couple adopting. Given a single child looking to be adopted and 2 couples seeking an adopted child; if both couples would make parents of equal merit, to which one would you grant the adoption.

    You might toss a coin, but I am saying that the obvious choice is the heterosexual couple as there is substantial evidence that a child's development begs the influence of both a male and a female role model, ie a mother and a father. For this reason, parents who separate or divorce do their children no favors and when one parent dies, it is in the best interest of any children involved for the surviving spouse to seek a new mate as soon as possible. To give the same sex couple the child when an equally deserving heterosexual couple is available would, in my opinion, be unfair to the child.

    No matter how you cut it a gay couple, no matter how good of parents they might be, will always be missing half the ingredients necessary to provide a child the best possible developmental environment.

    Just to set the record straight, I do not think any one person or any group of people are "superior" to another.
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Thats not what Deuteronomy 28 says... Are you saying peter is contradicting that? I'm getting more and more confused..
    Either you take the bible litterally or you dont, but if you do, you'll find that many things are simply not happening..
    Two things:
    1. Read chapter 29 in its entirety for context on you first point
    2. same for 28

    Pay close attention to whom and concerning whom the blessings and cursings are pronounced. Then let me know wherein you perceive a contradiction.
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    Toolkit, you just cannot get your head around this can you.

    We are not discussing who makes better parents. It is impossible to predict whether any given individual will make a good parent. Only time as a parent will tell. .
    Being an adoptive parent is being a parent too IMHO, actually, it probably is an even harder job..

    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    You might toss a coin, but I am saying that the obvious choice is the heterosexual couple as there is substantial evidence that a child's development begs the influence of both a male and a female role model, ie a mother and a father..
    I agree kids need rolemodels, but disagree that the parents need to be a male AND female rolemodel. As long as a kid get a good rolemodel of both genders he/she'll be ok.
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    Just to set the record straight, I do not think any one person or any group of people are "superior" to another.
    Thanks for that, for a second I was worried you did..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Two things:
    1. Read chapter 29 in its entirety for context on you first point
    2. same for 28

    Pay close attention to whom and concerning whom the blessings and cursings are pronounced. Then let me know wherein you perceive a contradiction.
    "28:
    1 If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. 2 All these blessings will come upon you and accompany you if you obey the LORD your God:
    3-14 list of blessings

    Curses for Disobedience
    15 However, if you do not obey the LORD your God and do not carefully follow all his commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come upon you and overtake you:
    16 You will be cursed etc.
    16-68 list of curses.

    29:
    Renewal of the Covenant

    1 These are the terms of the covenant the LORD commanded Moses to make with the Israelites in Moab, in addition to the covenant he had made with them at Horeb.
    2 Moses summoned all the Israelites and said to them:
    "
    So you are saying this only applies to the Israelites? So not to me? or you? (assuming you are not an israelite)
    With Israelites, do they mean the people of Israel?
    The more you explain this to me, the more I get confused..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    So you are saying this only applies to the Israelites? So not to me? or you? (assuming you are not an israelite)
    With Israelites, do they mean the people of Israel?
    The more you explain this to me, the more I get confused..
    Seeing how I have not furthered my explanation, I would have to classify any further confusion you have experienced as self-induced :wink:

    However I can concur with your conclusion. The covenant language you are reading comes from a specific covenant between Yahweh and Israel (and her descendents).

    The beauty of our access to its terms is that we gain insight into the principles and guidelines Yahweh has set forth for mankind to prosper.
Page 7 of 13 FirstFirst ... 23456789101112 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions