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  1. #81  
    How would you define these 'the physical and emotional wounds of this sexual revolution'?
    I think the secrecy and frustration about sex in the pre-sexual revolution era was causing physical and emotional wounds too, maybe even more.
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  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Or are defective
    Or are used improperly
    Or...
    Defectiveness has been brought to a minimum in the last years, if properly used defect rate are really slim.
    As for improper use, that is why it should be educated properly..
    like cars, they can be very harmfull if not handled right, but if handled right there is very little chance of it falling appart..
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  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    ...Say, where in the bible does it say people should not have sex if younger than 20?
    I have not encountered an age-limit on sexual activity. But rather, the Biblical view reserves sex for marriage. Sex outside of marriage (prior to, during but with another partner) is prohibited.
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    You have to understand the origins of the rules trying to delay sex. In the old days, for almost every society, overpopulation was a problem (it still is outside developed countries, btw). The carrying capacity of the natural environment was reached, more people meant starvation... the later adolescents had sex, the lower the population growth.

    This doesn't apply to us any more. Sex does not have to mean pregnancy any more.
    The Bibilical view of the population is much different. The instruction from the very beginning was and is, "be fruitful and multiply." Throughout the text, encouragement is given to procreation. The blessings of the Biblical-informed lifestyle speak of a productive womb.
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Tell me, why exactely is it bad if two 18 year olds who are in love have sex, given it is consensual and they use adequate protection?
    Before I do, perhaps you could tell me from what do two 18 year olds who are in love and have consentual sex need to be protected? Why would either of them engage in an activity in which they might damage the one they love?
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    And, in addition: In your view, why is it that teenage pregnancies are more than twice as high in the US when compared to other developed countries?
    The article you quoted provides sufficient explanation (and it makes no mention one way or the other to religion)
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Before I do, perhaps you could tell me from what do two 18 year olds who are in love and have consentual sex need to be protected? Why would either of them engage in an activity in which they might damage the one they love?
    To prevent unwanted pregnacy for example...
    And STDs arent exlusive to sexual transmission. So better save then sorry.

    Do you tell your loved ones to wear their seatbelts? same thing really, it is a protection from a potential hazzard.
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  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    How would you define these 'the physical and emotional wounds of this sexual revolution'?
    I think the secrecy and frustration about sex in the pre-sexual revolution era was causing physical and emotional wounds too, maybe even more.
    Physical = Sexually transmitted diseases

    Emotional = teens and parents dealing with unwanted pregnancy, women dealing with post-abortion issues, individuals failing to gain the sense of accomplishment after the initial encounter, individuals looking for the love that thought they were making when they had sex

    Marrital sex has never needed to be secret (though private) nor frustrating
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    I think I made the point -- The real world is fraught with adolescent child-bearing, unwanted pregnancy, epidemic/pandemic spread of sexually transmitted diseases, and abortion...
    Again, the facts are different. Sexually transmitted diseases have been reduced immensely in the past decades. AIDS is an exception, but also AIDS is much more of a problem in poor countries than in developed countries (still evey case is one too much of course). Also unwanted pregnancy and teenage pregnancy have been far more frequent in the past for obvious reasons.
    ...because people have turned the natural, healthy, human behavior of sex into a pleasure-driven, self-serving act.
    "Natural" behavior would mean having sex when reaching maturity, so certainly before 20 for most people. Indeed, sex means pleasure for many - is there anything bad about that in your view?

    And, while condoms may cover the anatomy, it provides no real protection from the physical and emotional wounds of this sexual revolution. And the safe sex "philosophy" does not provide any real relief. At best, it simply slows the progression.
    Physical and emotional wounds from consensual sex with adequate protection (if needed according to circumstances)? Tell me more, any examples?

    And I would still like to know:
    Tell me, why exactely is it bad if two 18 year olds who are in love have sex, given it is consensual and they use adequate protection?

    In your view, why is it that teenage pregnancies are more than twice as high in the US when compared to other developed countries?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    To prevent unwanted pregnacy for example...
    And STDs arent exlusive to sexual transmission. So better save then sorry.

    Do you tell your loved ones to wear their seatbelts? same thing really, it is a protection from a potential hazzard.
    The problem is, pregnancy is the primary purpose of sex. So, now you have people engaging in an activity whose primary outcome is the furthest things from their desires.

    If you don't want to get wet stay out of the water.

    There is no potential hazzard in marrital sex
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    joebar, let's just say this... Its a relief to know your view is in the minority.

    bing bing... WE have the winners!
    Yup you're right.. Our country now has become what it has always hated about the other scary mideast nations -- a bunch of religious finatics.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    The problem is, pregnancy is the primary purpose of sex. So, now you have people engaging in an activity whose primary outcome is the furthest things from their desires.

    If you don't want to get wet stay out of the water.

    There is no potential hazzard in marrital sex
    primary yes, only? No!
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  10. #90  
    STD is not a result of the sexual revolution, they have been around since mankind..

    Ditto with unwanted pregnancy, post-abortion issues.

    Not sure what you mean by:
    "individuals failing to gain the sense of accomplishment after the initial encounter"
    Is losing your virginity such a big accomplishment? please explain why..

    "individuals looking for the love that thought they were making when they had sex"
    True, but on the other hand if you are a christian, you marry a woman, but notice later you are not (sexually) compatible. Then you have a problem, esp. since you can't deforce. Sexual frustration can lead to all kinds of problems..
    Also the other way around would you ban a thing because a few people get hurt? if so most things should be banned..
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  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    primary yes, only? No!
    And the efforts to promote the pleasure over the purpose have resulted in the situations that clulup introduced in the article.

    That's what makes the Biblical lifestyle such a joy. Wrapped up in the purpose is the pleasure. So many focus on what appear to be restrictions in the Bible, never realizing that true freedom is waiting.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    There is no potential hazzard in marrital sex
    Yes there is, if the woman has a medical condition that would kill her is she fell pregnant.
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  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    And the efforts to promote the pleasure over the purpose have resulted in the situations that clulup introduced in the article.

    That's what makes the Biblical lifestyle such a joy. Wrapped up in the purpose is the pleasure. So many focus on what appear to be restrictions in the Bible, never realizing that true freedom is waiting.
    I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that.. seems like smoke and mirrors to me.

    And still you havent shown us the harm of 2 conselting adults to have protected sex...
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  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Tell me, why exactely is it bad if two 18 year olds who are in love have sex, given it is consensual and they use adequate protection?

    Well, before we go there lets determine if your world view allows for right or wrong. A philosphical discussion about right and wrong goes nowhere if one party's philosphy doesn't allow for it. I'm not trying to be rude, but if your worldview ultimately does not allow for meaning or morality, why have this discussion?

    Intrinsic in morality is purpose and meaning. As I mentioned before some of your worldviews seem contradictory (morality without meaning). Am I wrong?
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    STD is not a result of the sexual revolution, they have been around since mankind..

    Ditto with unwanted pregnancy, post-abortion issues.
    Not quite since mankind. Yet, point taken. But note the accelerated proliferation
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Not sure what you mean by:
    "individuals failing to gain the sense of accomplishment after the initial encounter"
    Is losing your virginity such a big accomplishment? please explain why..
    It is too some. The pressure is to "get the experience" But, your implied question is my exact question. Why is losing virginity before marriage such a big accomplishment? Why is sex such a priority (so much so that one will risk STDs and espeically AIDS to have the experience)?

    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    "individuals looking for the love that thought they were making when they had sex"
    True, but on the other hand if you are a christian, you marry a woman, but notice later you are not (sexually) compatible. Then you have a problem, esp. since you can't deforce. Sexual frustration can lead to all kinds of problems..
    Not sexually compatible? What is that?
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Also the other way around would you ban a thing because a few people get hurt? if so most things should be banned..
    This is not about banning anything. It is about returning something to its proper context. Marrital sex is the best sex. It is the safest. It is the best context for procreation. And it is pleasurable to boot.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Yes there is, if the woman has a medical condition that would kill her is she fell pregnant.
    Ahhh, I think some call this the exception that proves the rule
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that.. seems like smoke and mirrors to me.

    And still you havent shown us the harm of 2 conselting adults to have protected sex...
    I was giving clulup an opportunity to address my pre-emptive question about why those described 18 year olds would need protection, or why they would engage in behavior that posed such risk to one they loved.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Not quite since mankind. Yet, point taken. But note the accelerated proliferation.
    Of mankind you mean? As clulup allready mention STD are on de decrease in general due to modern medicine, a few exeptions like Aids havent been tackled yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    It is too some. The pressure is to "get the experience" But, your implied question is my exact question. Why is losing virginity before marriage such a big accomplishment? Why is sex such a priority (so much so that one will risk STDs and espeically AIDS to have the experience)?.
    Ah, then I misinterpreted you, we agree, losing your virginity isnt that big a deal as some people make it..

    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Not sexually compatible? What is that? .
    Having different idea's of what you like, different tastes etc etc.
    Like people can not be compatible as partnes on a platonic level so can they be not compatible on a sexual level.
    But if sex is just for getting pregnant I guess that doesnt matter according to the bible (correct me if I simplify things too much)


    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    This is not about banning anything. It is about returning something to its proper context. Marrital sex is the best sex. It is the safest. It is the best context for procreation. And it is pleasurable to boot.
    safest sex is with a virgin, even if you are married your partner can cheat on you (don't agree with it, but it does happen), then again she could have gotten a STD through other ways... so I guess mastrubation is the safest sex... but that is banned by the bible :/
    I respectfully disagree with that the best context for sex is procreation.
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  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    The problem is, pregnancy is the primary purpose of sex. So, now you have people engaging in an activity whose primary outcome is the furthest things from their desires.
    Hunting and gathering food is the primary purpose of our muscles. So, now you have people engaging in an activity which is the opposite, wasting calories on - for instance - playing the trumpet!?

    Shame on you, shopharim, for wasting your god-given muscles on something that isn't the primary purpose! What? You play the trumpet because it gives you or others pleasure - the worse!! You do it for money even?! Goodness gracious, where will this end?!

    And you still owe me some answers, remember?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    I was giving clulup an opportunity to address my pre-emptive question about why those described 18 year olds would need protection, or why they would engage in behavior that posed such risk to one they loved.
    I think he would agree with my reply about it..
    Humour me, pretend that my reply was his..
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