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  1. #221  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    How cruel of him... sadistic probably.

    Out of everything you've said....this is the only thing that really got me mad. You just called God cruel and sadastic (even if it is a joke). And the thing you don't realize is, he's not just my God....whether you believe in him or not, he loves you too and when you turn from him it hurts. Although you may have given up on him, he'll never give up on you.
  2. #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    you can also say God knew Hitler was going to bring the holocaust, he still made him.
    Makes you wonder doesnt it?
    And don't give me any of that free will nonsense. Tell that to the millions of innocent jews that got killed. But I guess they were collateral damage of the free will experiment..

    Same story with 911 btw. If god created all people, he created the terrorists too. But they act in Alah's name (which is off course the same as god, but that another discussion)
    It simply does not add up..
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  3. #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    whether you believe in him or not, he loves you too and when you turn from him it hurts. Although you may have given up on him, he'll never give up on you.
    How do you know? because you read it in a book? or because somebody told you?
    How many people have actually seen/spoken to god?
    Please explain how, when, where etc. I am genuinely interested..
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  4. #224  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    How do you know? because you read it in a book? or because somebody told you?
    How many people have actually seen/spoken to god?
    Please explain how, when, where etc. I am genuinely interested..
    Here ya go....

    Gospel
    Mt 18:12-14

    Jesus said to his disciples:
    "What is your opinion?
    If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray,
    will he not leave the ninety-nine in the hills
    and go in search of the stray?
    And if he finds it, amen, I say to you, he rejoices more over it
    than over the ninety-nine that did not stray.
    In just the same way, it is not the will of your heavenly Father
    that one of these little ones be lost."

    This is just the one I read a couple days ago so it was in my memory, but it's the teachings of the church and is also shown in other places in the bible.
  5. #225  
    And in case you have a few free minutes everyday (only takes a few minutes....) check this link out...

    http://www.usccb.org/nab/today.htm This is daily readings for the bible. The quote I gave was from 12/7/04. Just go to bottom of the reading and click on the "New American Bible Home Page" link and it'll bring up a calendar....pick the date to see it.
  6. #226  
    Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    How do you know? because you read it in a book? or because somebody told you?
    How many people have actually seen/spoken to god?
    Please explain how, when, where etc. I am genuinely interested..
    Also....from a A Statement of the Bishops' Committee on Marriage and Family.

    "All in all, it is essential to recall one basic truth. God loves every person as a unique individual. Sexual identity helps to define the unique persons we are, and one component of our sexual identity is sexual orientation. Thus, our total personhood is more encompassing than sexual orientation. Human beings see the appearance, but the Lord looks into the heart (cf. 1 Sm 16:7).

    God does not love someone any less simply because he or she is homosexual. God's love is always and everywhere offered to those who are open to receiving it. St. Paul's words offer great hope:

    For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor present things, nor future things, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom 8:38-39)"
  7. #227  
    RicoM, I think you misread my question (or I wasnt clear enough), I ment: have you personally spoken with god/Jesus?
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  8. #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    RicoM, I think you misread my question (or I wasnt clear enough), I ment: have you personally spoken with god/Jesus?
    I personally speak with him everyday (or try to)....through prayer. He has not verbally talked back, or manifested and talked to me if that's what you're getting at. Through prayer though, I do get answers....and some of my requests have been answered. So I believe God has spoken to me in that fashion. But this is where faith comes in. If you don't have faith, then you won't accept that answer.

    And the first part of you question was indeed answered with my last post...the part where you quoted me with saying,
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    "whether you believe in him or not, he loves you too and when you turn from him it hurts. Although you may have given up on him, he'll never give up on you.
    And then you asked

    Quote Originally Posted by Toolkit
    How do you know? because you read it in a book? or because somebody told you?
    I answered that by showing you Jesus' quote as well as saying it's the teachings from the church....so I was indeed told by somebody (the church) and I did read it somewhere (the bible).
    Last edited by RicoM; 12/09/2004 at 05:18 PM.
  9. #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    I personally speak with him everyday (or try to)....through prayer. He has not verbally talked back, or manifested and talked to me if that's what you're getting at. Through prayer though, I do get answers....and some of my requests have been answered. So I believe God has spoken to me in that fashion. But this is where faith comes in. If you don't have faith, then you won't accept that answer.
    I will accept your answer, but I'll interpretate it as a 'no god/jesus has never spoken to me personally, I have had deep thoughts which gave me answers'

    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    And the first part of you question was indeed answered with my last post...the part where you quoted me with saying,
    And then you asked
    I answered that by showing you Jesus' quote as well as saying it's the teachings from the church....so I was indeed told by somebody (the church) and I did read it somewhere (the bible).
    It was a slightly cinical rethorical question..
    What I was implying is that those weren't real answers to my question.

    Reason why I'm asking, not a single soul I have spoken has ever spoken with god/jesus personally or have any other proof that he exists other than a book written by men who claim he exists..
    I can claim the wizard of Oz exists because I read it in a convincing book too, yet that doesnt proof it, does it?
    To me the bible is an important historical book, and I'm sure parts of it are true, but also heaps that is made up by man to get power/control/leadership/unity/morals etc.

    (for the record: I believe Jesus existed, just not that he was a messiah/son of god etc)
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  10. #230  
    (for the record: I believe Jesus existed, just not that he was a messiah/son of god etc)
    And just for the record...whether you believe he was the son of god or not...Jesus historically did exist. There is no just "believing" it. There is no denying that. No history class/buffs will dispute it. (i.e. historical evidence).

    Gotta go....have a class tonight.
  11. #231  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Reason why I'm asking, not a single soul I have spoken has ever spoken with god/jesus personally or have any other proof that he exists other than a book written by men who claim he exists..
    Well my original answer did say that if you don't have faith, then you won't accept the answer. It's obvious you don't have faith. Because for me, that was proof. And with your response it's obvious that you don't believe the teachings of the bible have any merit.

    I hope that God does speak to you somewhere and "retrieve his lost sheep". Please don't take this as any way except a friendly way. If you for some reason get real curious on the subject and do some reading (maybe the link I posted)....it may start a fire where you go to a beginner's class. My church has a Catholic's 101 class for people interested in learning more (no obligation to join). I'm sure most church's have a similar class. If you ever did this and ended up joining the church...you may feel that God "spoke" to you when you yearned for more knowledge (again, this is faith based which by your own words, you have none now).
  12. #232  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    Well my original answer did say that if you don't have faith, then you won't accept the answer. It's obvious you don't have faith. Because for me, that was proof. And with your response it's obvious that you don't believe the teachings of the bible have any merit.
    No offense, but I think that is a non-argument. That is my whole problem with religion. They claim something and then don't back it up, but say you have to believe it :/ and you only get the proof once you believe it.. catch 22 if you ask me, and an easy way out of any question..
    Whats to say this religion thing isnt a mass hysteria? If a person is hearing voices in his head he mentally ill, but if that voice is the voice of god he is normal?
    It is not making sense to me.
    (btw I'm not saying you are insane, just that the logic doesnt add up)


    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    I hope that God does speak to you somewhere and "retrieve his lost sheep". Please don't take this as any way except a friendly way.
    I do appreciate your wishes, I'll let you know when he speaks to me.. don't hold your breath though

    I'm not saying there is no god, just that I find the odds very unlikely..
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  13. #233  
    I have spoken to God. God has spoken to me.
  14. #234  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    I have spoken to God. God has spoken to me.
    Cool, can you tell me more about it? Where when, how, what did he sound like, what did he tell you etc. etc.
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  15. #235  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Cool, can you tell me more about it? Where when, how, what did he sound like, what did he tell you etc. etc.
    His answer won't satisfy you because of the before mentioned....lack of faith.
  16. #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    His answer won't satisfy you because of the before mentioned....lack of faith.
    you could be right...
    Still a catch 22 though, you got to believe in him before he shows any proof...
    Where is the logic in that? if there is an omnipotent omnipresent god, why is he hiding?
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  17. #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    you could be right...
    Still a catch 22 though, you got to believe in him before he shows any proof...
    Where is the logic in that? if there is an omnipotent omnipresent god, why is he hiding?
    Hiding? He is omnipresent!!! He is everywhere. If I told you that I saw and spoke to HIM this morning, would you believe me? HE cannot hide from me because HE is with me every second. You think HE's hiding from you? Look again....
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  18. #238  
    checked over my shoulder twice, nobody there.. And I'm in my office now, pretty small room, I'd see it if there was somebody here.
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  19. #239  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    checked over my shoulder twice, nobody there.. And I'm in my office now, pretty small room, I'd see it if there was somebody here.
    It's quite obvious that you're not ready to take that step yet....no problem, as I said before, God will not abandon you even though you have abandoned him. But you want scientific proof...and here's an article (a bit long) that should help. But currently, short of an angel appearing before you, I don't think you're ready to accept any scientific logic that says anything except what you want it to say....

    http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Mansproof.html
  20. #240  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    But you want scientific proof...and here's an article (a bit long) that should help. But currently, short of an angel appearing before you, I don't think you're ready to accept any scientific logic that says anything except what you want it to say....

    http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Mansproof.html
    Thanks for the link, I'll have a look at it..
    And if the proof is any good I'll surely accept it.. But you are right that I am sceptical..
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