Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 34 of 34
  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Oops
    Tekara, the issue before the Supreme Court is "legalizing" (it IS legal in 11 states!) the use of marijuana for medical purpose! Most people who need it for that purpose are gravely ill.
    The issue is whose laws apply. It is legal in 11 states, and illegal in all states (make sense?). SCOTUS decides which is applies (though I think technically they are only deciding one state, the ruling applies to all).
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekara
    Just because you asked:
    Caffeine: Psychological Effects, Use and Abuse...
    Caffeine's effect on our body, our nervous system, our mind, our psychology is no illusion.
    I know coffee has effects (like an occasional sleepless night), I never claimed it doesn't. But thousands of people die every year from lung cancer, heart attack, stroke, etc. due to smoking. Thousands of families suffer severely from members of their families addicted to alcohol, thousands die due to direct health effects or in car accidents caused by alcohol.

    Are you really trying to say drinking coffee even comes near that in terms of damage it does?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  3. #23  
    Caffeine's addictiveness easily makes it compare to other drugs of a higher degree.

    Aside from that, the psychological damage is where a majority of the problems with caffeine come frem. I would think a drug that can damage the thought-processes of the brain to be worse than one that damages your lungs.
    "The danger from computers is not that they will eventually get as smart as men, but that we will agree to meet them halfway." -Bernard Avishai
    "Computers are a lot like air conditioners - they both work great until you open windows." -Anonymous

  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Oops
    The government doesn't see the benefits in helping dying or gravely ill people to cope with pain by using marijuana. What's not clear about it?
    Your statement is without any foundation. "The Government" cannot see anything. Only humans can have opinions that you ascribe to "The government". So WHO exactly in the government doesn't see the benefits in helping dying or gravely ill people cope with pain by using marijuana. No one. These are not evil people. They are responsible and cautious.

    One can see the benefits and still be reluctant to legalize if it is deemed of greater damage to society to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oops
    Clearly you fail to see the large picture. Huge amount of money is spent by the giant pharmaceuticals to fend-off the use of marijuana as medicine. No need to ask why, I hope.
    I tried to find some evidence that the giant pharmaceuticals are spending huge amounts of money to fend off the use of marijuana as medicine. Would appreciate a link to something that supports this assertion.

    I am not against sick people having access to anything that can ease their pain, but that does not mean that we should do it the way San Francisco did. There must be a way to do it without creating a negative societal influence in it's distribution. We are able to do it with morphine, isn't there a way with cannabis?
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekara
    Caffeine's addictiveness easily makes it compare to other drugs of a higher degree.

    Aside from that, the psychological damage is where a majority of the problems with caffeine come frem. I would think a drug that can damage the thought-processes of the brain to be worse than one that damages your lungs.
    Not quite as clean of a statement as I would have liked.

    All I am really trying to do is just argue that marijuana is on the same level as caffeine. And as such either caffeine should be made illegal or marijuana should be made legal.
    "The danger from computers is not that they will eventually get as smart as men, but that we will agree to meet them halfway." -Bernard Avishai
    "Computers are a lot like air conditioners - they both work great until you open windows." -Anonymous

  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    Your statement is without any foundation. "The Government" cannot see anything. Only humans can have opinions that you ascribe to "The government". So WHO exactly in the government doesn't see the benefits in helping dying or gravely ill people cope with pain by using marijuana. No one. These are not evil people. They are responsible and cautious.
    Did I say the government consists of evil people? I am saying that pharmaceuticals and the alcohol industry are armed with money and they DO influence the decision of many in government. Do opponents of this amendment honestly believe the American Nurses Association, the New York State Medical Society, United Methodist Church, the Episcopal Church, and others are supporting this issue because they hope to legalize marijuana for all purposes? Of course that isn't the reason. These organizations support legal access to marijuana for medical purposes because they know one simple fact: it helps sick people.
    http://www.mpp.org/OR/news_2175.html
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    I tried to find some evidence that the giant pharmaceuticals are spending huge amounts of money to fend off the use of marijuana as medicine. Would appreciate a link to something that supports this assertion.
    http://www.mpp.org/states/rampage.html
    http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/180/bcparty.shtml
    http://www.cannabisnews.com/news/thread7829.shtml
    Last edited by Oops; 11/29/2004 at 06:19 PM.
    You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing.
    -Michael Pritchard
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekara
    Not quite as clean of a statement as I would have liked.

    All I am really trying to do is just argue that marijuana is on the same level as caffeine. And as such either caffeine should be made illegal or marijuana should be made legal.
    I was with you until this statement.

    It is a matter of degree. It takes a lot of caffeine, much more than the regular use of coffee by 99.9% of coffee drinkers, to have it noticeably affect the quality of ones life or ones ability function to ones full potential. I don't know anyone nor has anyone ever told me of someone who's physical, family or societal problems were due too drinking to much coffee. I have know folks who have quit coffee because they did not like the affect it was having on them physically, but it was not noticeable to anyone but themselves.

    The regular recreational use of marijuana can be shown, all be it anecdotally, to have profound affects on quality of life and ones ability to function at full potential. This is especially true when the use begins in pre and early teens. Regular use of marijuana can erase years from a young persons productive life, and the sad thing is that they don't even realize it's happening to them.

    Most kids don't have a burning temptation nor any peer pressure to drink coffee. Legalizing marijuana gives tacit approval to it's use which is not lost on our kids.
  8. #28  
    Like they say marijuana is addicting. Bull****e man! I've been smoking it for 15, uuhh 20 years and I'm like not addicted. They also say it makes men's breast bigger but if you drink lots a beer the beer-belly compliments that. And I heard that smoking marijuana affects your memerory? Rubbish!
    On another topic, who do you think will win the election?
    Banoo... what's that smell?
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    I was with you until this statement.

    It is a matter of degree. It takes a lot of caffeine, much more than the regular use of coffee by 99.9% of coffee drinkers, to have it noticeably affect the quality of ones life or ones ability function to ones full potential. I don't know anyone nor has anyone ever told me of someone who's physical, family or societal problems were due too drinking to much coffee. I have know folks who have quit coffee because they did not like the affect it was having on them physically, but it was not noticeable to anyone but themselves.
    This is surprisenly untrue, I'll pull some quotes from the previously posted research paper. Something I would like you to particularly take note of is the dosage level of caffiene in these quotes.

    "The equivalent of one or two cups of coffee (150 to 250 mg of caffeine) is sufficient to induce adverse effects. The occurrence of hyperesthesia, an unpleasant sensory sensation, can be stimulated by large doses of caffeine."

    "Caffeine has not only been considered habit forming, but also addicting. Crothers considered morphinism and caffeinism to be similar, with caffeine causing loss of self-control, spells of agitation and depression as well as psychotic behavior (Stephenson, 1977). Ritchie mentions a report by Colton that tolerance can develop for the diuretic, salivary stimulation and sleep disturbance effects of caffeine.

    Cola consumed in amounts of 48 to 111 ounces per day (144 to 333 mg of caffeine per day) was reported to have caused physical effects on withdrawal (Diamond and Pfifferling, 1974). The resultant effects we'Pe depression, nervousness, decreased alertness, sleeping difficulty, frequent mood changes, and various other behavioral difficulties which were attributed to caffeine withdrawal."

    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    The regular recreational use of marijuana can be shown, all be it anecdotally, to have profound affects on quality of life and ones ability to function at full potential. This is especially true when the use begins in pre and early teens. Regular use of marijuana can erase years from a young persons productive life, and the sad thing is that they don't even realize it's happening to them.

    Most kids don't have a burning temptation nor any peer pressure to drink coffee. Legalizing marijuana gives tacit approval to it's use which is not lost on our kids.
    We treat caffeine as though it's not a drug. Caffeine is everywhere, it's in soda and coffee, people of all ages consume it. How could something so widespread be a problem?

    When we find someone under the effects of caffinism we just pass it off as them having a bad day or just being naturally that way. Such a Blasé approach to this problem is why it's not treated any more seriously. Something to bring this into perspective: How do you look upon a person under a caffiene high? I bet you don't look down on them like you would a user of marijuana, I bet you would just think it funny or obnoxious.

    Something I want to pick on you for in particular is when you say: ". . . have profound affects on quality of life and ones ability to function at full potential". I am sure you have suffered from a inability to sleep at least a couple times in your life, and can easily attest to the effects it has your daily performance. Caffeine abuse has been tied to causing a chronic inabilty to sleep, it is hard to imagine anyone that is able to function normally with such a problem.
    "The danger from computers is not that they will eventually get as smart as men, but that we will agree to meet them halfway." -Bernard Avishai
    "Computers are a lot like air conditioners - they both work great until you open windows." -Anonymous

  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Oops
    Did I say the government consists of evil people?
    No those were my words. The tone and tenor of your statement that "The government" didn't see the benefits of helping dying or gravely ill people, implies that the government is made up of uncaring, and so evil people. I just am making the point that they are well intended people like you and me.

    Perhaps I missed something in your links, but which one talks about huge amounts of money being spent by the giant pharmaceuticals to fend-off the use of marijuana as medicine???

    The last one mentions the alcohol industry, but it too is nothing more than somebody in a letter to the editor making a statement without any supporting evidence. I can see the alcohol industry might see a threat from legalizing marijuana, but still where is the evidence.

    Point me to something that names the pharmaceuticals and how much they have spent.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekara
    This is surprisenly untrue, I'll pull some quotes from the previously posted research paper. Something I would like you to particularly take note of is the dosage level of caffiene in these quotes..... "hyperesthesia, an unpleasant sensory sensation,"......."loss of self-control, spells of agitation and depression as well as psychotic behavio"...."diuretic, salivary stimulation and sleep disturbance "....."physical effects on withdrawal"...."depression, nervousness, decreased alertness, sleeping difficulty, frequent mood changes,".....
    If you are the person experiencing these affects from caffeine, especially if you get them all at once, is certainly having physical problems. But, with the exception of psychotic behavior, I would not put them in the same class as the life altering affects seen in the regular use of marijuana.

    Marijuana robs the young of their natural lust for knowledge, ability or desire to set goals, and the drive to work hard for a better future for themselves and their families. The affects of marijuana serve to lower self expectations for a significant number of the members of our society which in turn affects to some extent the expectations of our society as a whole. Caffeine has very little affect on our society.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tekara
    Something I want to pick on you for in particular is when you say: ". . . have profound affects on quality of life and ones ability to function at full potential". I am sure you have suffered from a inability to sleep at least a couple times in your life, and can easily attest to the effects it has your daily performance. Caffeine abuse has been tied to causing a chronic inabilty to sleep, it is hard to imagine anyone that is able to function normally with such a problem.
    In my observation, most folks who get to this point with caffeine usually cut back or quit all together before if affects their ability to function. Not sure I ever met or heard of anyone who has lost their job because they drank too much coffee.

    Not so with marijuana. The user does not want to quit. They are happy with the way they are and they do not recognize the affect the drug is having on them and those around them.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by cglaguna
    Tried it, not my thing but, I think it should be legalized. No worse than alcohol and cigarettes and a ton of prescription drugs out there already. Why should people pay for pill forms when they can grow it for free?
    Ditto.
    Being dutch it probably doesnt come as a surprize that I see little point in banning MJ.
    If you ban it it becomes a forbidden fruit.
    In Holland MJ isnt procecuted (note it is illegal in certain amounts) and there arent huge problems with it. It makes a good tourist attraction too
    I'd say in Amsterdam there are more tourists who smoke than locals..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    No those were my words. The tone and tenor of your statement that "The government" didn't see the benefits of helping dying or gravely ill people, implies that the government is made up of uncaring, and so evil people. I just am making the point that they are well intended people like you and me.
    I am sure they are very nice people. But they are also being exposed to more lobbying than you and I are, thus temptation is greater, especially when money is vital comes election time.
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    Perhaps I missed something in your links, but which one talks about huge amounts of money being spent by the giant pharmaceuticals to fend-off the use of marijuana as medicine???
    My fault, I jumped the gun. I can swear I heard this on public radio, but when I researched their site I couldn't find any numbers.
    You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing.
    -Michael Pritchard
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Oops
    I am sure they are very nice people. But they are also being exposed to more lobbying than you and I are, thus temptation is greater, especially when money is vital comes election time.
    If we have no evidence that pharmaceuticals are lobbying them, who then is? I contend our elected officials are currently moving with caution on this issue because it is not entirely clear what to do or how to do it in such a way that insures the legitimate use of a the drug without exposing our children to potential misuse. We will figure it out, but you need to be patient and willing to compromise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oops
    My fault, I jumped the gun. I can swear I heard this on public radio, but when I researched their site I couldn't find any numbers.
    No sweat. It's very easy and tempting to jump on something you hear. You still may be right, but I won't believe it until I see the evidence supporting the contention.

    The problem is that statements like this are believed and not questioned by most folks on either side of an issue, especially when it supports their position, which in turns corrupts the free exchange of ideas and slows the process of resolving a complicated issue such as this one.
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions