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  1.    #1  
    The biggest losers..
    democrats
    europeans
    hollywood
    soros ($72 mil, or so)
    Moore......ect.


    But most importantly BIN LADEN & his terrorist friends like arafat, saddam...
  2. #2  
    why class europe in " the biggest losers" ??
  3.    #3  
    I meant, France, germany ect.
  4. #4  
    America has sealed its fate. It's doomed. It had a chance to turn back. It didn't take it.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahootzki
    The biggest losers..
    democrats
    europeans
    hollywood
    soros ($72 mil, or so)
    Moore......ect.


    But most importantly BIN LADEN & his terrorist friends like arafat, saddam...
    I don't feel the American voters had much to choose from in the first place. And I find it very shortsighted to lump any whole group into a sterotypical comment as yours. People are people, plain and simple, the good the bad and the ugly. You will always have both good and bad among the groups. Including Americans. Duh.

    So let's not gloat too soon. How can you when we have soldiers in Iraq dying everyday in a war that was not supported by this country or the UN. All courtesy of the present Administration. So get a life cuz most folks have lives that are not engulfed in politics.
    "Everyday is a Gift, A Blessing, An Opportunity!" - GM

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  6. #6  
    I'd say the biggerst losers are:
    The thousands who died on 9-11
    The thousands of innocent civilians who died in iraq
    The hondreds of soldiers who died in iraq

    Please think about those too when you gloat..

    Bin laden will recruit more terrorist with Bush in power I'm afraid..
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  7. #7  
    Are you saying a war is a mistake if people die?
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by carter437
    Are you saying a war is a mistake if people die?
    No I say the people who lost their lives were the biggest losers.
    In all wars people die. A war is a mistake if you go in for the wrong reasons and do not adeqately protect your soldiers and the innocent civilians and if you have no exit strategy.
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  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahootzki
    I meant, France, germany ect.
    I'm missing something here....explain this to me why France and Germany will be losers ??
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by murrayalex
    I'm missing something here....explain this to me why France and Germany will be losers ??
    I dont get it either, but if you look it from the 'if you are not with us you are against us' angle, Germany and france oposed Iraq war, hence opposed US/Bush. Bush won ergo Germany and France lost..

    Flawed logic IMHO.
    Who lost were 48% of the american people...
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  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Who lost were 48% of the american people...
    This is the correct answer.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    No I say the people who lost their lives were the biggest losers.
    In all wars people die. A war is a mistake if you go in for the wrong reasons and do not adeqately protect your soldiers and the innocent civilians and if you have no exit strategy.
    Kerry voted against adeqately protecting our troups when he voted against bullet proof armor and even bullets.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by BssinRVer
    Kerry voted against adeqately protecting our troups when he voted against bullet proof armor and even bullets.
    So? that is a wrong call too. Doesnt make the war any more just..
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  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by BssinRVer
    Kerry voted against adeqately protecting our troups when he voted against bullet proof armor and even bullets.
    Kerry didn't put us in this war now did he, nor did he have the power to override the process channel that put us in a war where soldiers would need vests.
    "Everyday is a Gift, A Blessing, An Opportunity!" - GM

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  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    No I say the people who lost their lives were the biggest losers.
    In all wars people die. A war is a mistake if you go in for the wrong reasons and do not adeqately protect your soldiers and the innocent civilians and if you have no exit strategy.

    Exactly, just wanted to see what your thoughts were. I would agree with your list if Kerry had won, because I believe he wouldn't have continued fighting terrorism in a way that properly reflected the gravity of 911.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by carter437
    because I believe he wouldn't have continued fighting terrorism in a way that properly reflected the gravity of 911.
    I think/hope he would.. Actually I think attacking iraq didnt reflect the gravity at all, it was a smoke and mirrors move to deflect the failure to catch Bin Laden..
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  17.    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    I'd say the biggerst losers are:
    The thousands who died on 9-11
    The thousands of innocent civilians who died in iraq
    The hondreds of soldiers who died in iraq

    Please think about those too when you gloat..

    Bin laden will recruit more terrorist with Bush in power I'm afraid..
    I take back this thread, sorry for saying what I said (I said it in a very excited time, without thinking), you are right about that, that the people who died are the ones that lost "their lives" but to say that they lost with Bush winning is not right, (i hope you take that back..) and about your last line, If BL is better off now, he wouldn't warn america about voting for him...
    We BOTH know that Bush is strong on fighting terrorism, but if we don't see a decline in terror within the next few years, I will be very dissapointed in Bush. But I have faith that Bush will go after them with all his might, he MEANS what he says, and he WILL do it. Now is a time to unite, I voted for him only because I had someone in my family die on 9/11, and I saw him going after them, and I hope he will continue doing it the way he does.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahootzki
    I take back this thread, sorry for saying what I said (I said it in a very excited time, without thinking), you are right about that, that the people who died are the ones that lost "their lives" but to say that they lost with Bush winning is not right, (i hope you take that back..) and about your last line, If BL is better off now, he wouldn't warn america about voting for him...
    Bush won the elections, and I think he used 9-11 very well in his own advantage I'd say, which is opportunistic, which is fine (it is the american way) I dont think however he wanted 9-11 to happen..

    As for BL, not sure what he wants.. it could have been referse psycholigy.. but I think both candidates were infidels so prob. wouldnt have mattered that much..

    Quote Originally Posted by Mahootzki
    We BOTH know that Bush is strong on fighting terrorism, but if we don't see a decline in terror within the next few years, I will be very dissapointed in Bush. But I have faith that Bush will go after them with all his might, he MEANS what he says, and he WILL do it. Now is a time to unite, I voted for him only because I had someone in my family die on 9/11, and I saw him going after them, and I hope he will continue doing it the way he does.
    Personally I dont think Bush is strong on fighting terrorism..I'll explain:
    By attacking Iraq he drew forces and resources away from catching BL.
    Also it created a boom in terrorist recruitment.
    With his with us or against us attitude he devided the world while we should be working together.
    With his rigid Christian attitude he is allienating other religions and just adding fuel to BL's propaganda.
    And the biggest problem is that he doesnt fight the cause of terrorism, he keeps fighting the symptoms.. and in the long run that is not going to be very effective I'm afraid.. but only time will tell
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  19. #19  
    sealed our fate, huh?

    what do you feel our fate will be if we achieve the following:

    1) strenghthen national security to the point where no further terrorist attacks could occur.

    2) make CONCRETE steps toward improving social security via personal accts, as opposed to letting dems spout about the importance of s.s while they dip into that s.s to fund their "giveaway" programs.

    3) oust dictators, establish democracy and return from iraq to strengthen our OWN country

    4) make it crystal clear that we will not DO NOTHING after terrorist threats.

    5) steadlily improve our economy and employment levels.

    6) seal our borders while returning from iraq so that no future al qaeda threat could ever hold any water.

    7) improve healthcare - a system where while it isn't perfect, still dwarfs any healthcare system in the world.

    ( its funny that europe claims we have it so wrong, while they spout about their "views" on how they think we should do things, those same european nations suffer from horrendous healthcare issues, yet they claim to have ALL the answers for america. )

    8) prove all these naysayers wrong in their criticisms of our govt.


    what if all these goals are achieved?

    would we still have sealed our fate? that we are doomed, even still?

    re: bush giving al qaeda more motivation for recruits, I think another candidate in office might have encouraged bin laden to not only recruit more but also to send his fiends in to take over our entire country. weakness would have been the image.

    why would bin laden suddenly make a video saying they wouldn't attack america as long as america didn't attack them?

    HEY BIN LADEN, YOU STARTED THIS ATTACK, WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!

    this would have tosuggest that he is beginning to see that he is losing significantly, and wants to pull out and take time to heal wounds and build in strength & numbers again.

    " you can avoid attacks if you don't attack our countries"

    what a foolish statement. it shows that he is losing confidence
  20. #20  
    treobk214 - some european countries suffer from healthcare problems, most noticeably those lacking the infrastructure and money to support such a system. Quite a few run a fairly tight ship and many countries could for example and indeed do look to Sweden as an example of a well run national healthcare system. Here in the UK we have a national healthcare system for everyone regardless of an individuals personal wealth, everyone is equally entitled to NHS treatment virtually free of cost. This costs a huge amount of money to run of course and is far from being without problems but I would venture the opinion it is a damn sight better than anything on offer in the US.

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