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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Maybe I did not say it before, but it was crucial getting the munitions that we did. But to have 250,000 tons of munitions missing? Is that a good thing?
    No, of course not. But where we disagree is that I think it is reasonable. Especially considering where most of these munitions are and how small these stashes are. Even if we had the UN in there and 100,000 more troops I would expect we would be exactly where we are today with one third of the known arsenal unaccounted for.

    I think it is reasonable of you to lament that we did not more aggressively pursue these weapons in the early days of the war to prevent them from getting into the wrong hands. I think, however, that this is monday morning quarterbacking. The troops had far more to worry about at the time. Perhaps knowing how effective we would be in waging the war, the plan would or should have included a more aggressive approach to securing Saddams munitions. But I am not about to criticize the President or the Commanders for not having the genius of vision that we have today, after the fact.
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    No, of course not. But where we disagree is that I think it is reasonable. Especially considering where most of these munitions are and how small these stashes are. Even if we had the UN in there and 100,000 more troops I would expect we would be exactly where we are today with one third of the known arsenal unaccounted for.

    I think it is reasonable of you to lament that we did not more aggressively pursue these weapons in the early days of the war to prevent them from getting into the wrong hands. I think, however, that this is monday morning quarterbacking. The troops had far more to worry about at the time. Perhaps knowing how effective we would be in waging the war, the plan would or should have included a more aggressive approach to securing Saddams munitions. But I am not about to criticize the President or the Commanders for not having the genius of vision that we have today, after the fact.
    The troops were and are heroic and my hats off to them.

    At the time, there was this notion that everyone in Iraq would welcome us with open arms and that once we finally took over Bagdad all would be "Mission accomplished". Myself, I worried about a long hard resistance, like the way the Iraqis resisted the well-intentioned British in the early part of this century. I feel that the president and his advisors did not anticipate this and did not plan for this adequately.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    At the time, there was this notion that everyone in Iraq would have welcomed us with open arms and that once we finally took over Bagdad all would be "Mission accomplished". Myself, I worried about a long hard resistance, like the way the Iraqis resisted the well-intentioned British in the early part of this century. The president and his advisors did not expect this and did not plan for this adequately. The troops just followed their orders and I do not blame them.
    There are about 24,000,000 people living in Iraq, I would say that there are still 23 or even 22,000,000 of them which are welcoming our troops with "open arms". The problem is that YOU don't see it, because nobody will show that... I can see CNN (the al jazeera affiliate) sitting in the cutting room, and cursing the daylights out of a reporter coming with a good report from Iraq... Let's say that it's 1 out of 10 that doesn't want us there, they will somehow find THAT 1...
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    The troops were and are heroic and my hats off to them.

    At the time, there was this notion that everyone in Iraq would welcome us with open arms and that once we finally took over Bagdad all would be "Mission accomplished". Myself, I worried about a long hard resistance, like the way the Iraqis resisted the well-intentioned British in the early part of this century. I feel that the president and his advisors did not anticipate this and did not plan for this adequately.
    I was with you. I was worried about a long hard resistance and I am not surprised that we have one today. I agree with you that the president and his advisors did not adequately plan for the level of insurgency that we have on our hands. The biggest mistake may have been to totally disband Saddam's army, but even that might have back fired on us.

    Let's not, however, throw the baby out with the bath water. It's tougher than we thought it was going to be, but we have accomplished a lot and most of Iraq is peaceful. I believe that in time we will calm the insurgency, and Iraq will get back to governing itself. That is why I am supporting GW. Under his leadership I believe we have the best chance for success in Iraq. Kerry, with his long, long anti-war stances and activities, worries me in that I do not believe he posses the will to stay the course. The biggest travesty would be for us to desert the Iraqi people when they need us most like we did after the first gulf war.
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbdh
    I was with you. I was worried about a long hard resistance and I am not surprised that we have one today. I agree with you that the president and his advisors did not adequately plan for the level of insurgency that we have on our hands. The biggest mistake may have been to totally disband Saddam's army, but even that might have back fired on us.

    Let's not, however, throw the baby out with the bath water. It's tougher than we thought it was going to be, but we have accomplished a lot and most of Iraq is peaceful. I believe that in time we will calm the insurgency, and Iraq will get back to governing itself. That is why I am supporting GW. Under his leadership I believe we have the best chance for success in Iraq. Kerry, with his long, long anti-war stances and activities, worries me in that I do not believe he posses the will to stay the course. The biggest travesty would be for us to desert the Iraqi people when they need us most like we did after the first gulf war.
    I agree with you John, regardless of what has happened, it is critically important that we help Iraq to become a peaceful democracy. I have lost my confidence with Bush and there is no way I would vote for him. But if he is re-elected and could manage to pull this off, I would be most thankful.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 10/31/2004 at 06:18 PM.
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