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  1.    #1  
    In case you are interested, the Lancet reported that there is a dramatic increase in the number of civilian deaths in Iraq AFTER we invaded Iraq.

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...q_death_toll_4
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3962969.stm

    This raises a couple of questions:

    First off, I wonder why we never were able to get this type of information from the Bush administration, we had to get it through an indepedent survey?

    Second, do the Iraqi people see firsthand that this occupation is being mismanaged, and we don't?

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...ll-cover_x.htm
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004May12.html
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 10/28/2004 at 03:41 PM.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    In case you are interested, the Lancet reported that there is a dramatic increase in the number of civilian deaths in Iraq AFTER we invaded Iraq. (...)
    Maybe one should add that "The Lancet" is one of the most prestigious scientific journals in the field of medicine, not just some newspaper.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  3.    #3  
    thanks clulup, I omitted that -most people I deal with in my work know about the Lancet's rep which is on par with that of the New England Journal.

    It is particularly disturbing that most of the individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 10/28/2004 at 03:44 PM.
  4. #4  
    I guess you were against the bombing of Japan too. Alot more civilians died there.
  5. #5  
    Oh, heavens no! I mean, since Iraq was actively waging a world war these past few months, we're totally justified in invading their country and killing their people! Thank you for point out this brilliant parallel!



    Nareau
  6. #6  
    Oh, heavens no! I mean, since Iraq was actively waging a world war these past few months, we're totally justified in invading their country and killing their people! Thank you for point out this brilliant parallel!
    HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA! I'll ditto that!!
  7. santas's Avatar
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    #7  
    100,000 people dead...

    but don't mess with those fertalized eggs that are about the be thrown out. That would be immoral
    Less than 400 posts to get my own little treo icon!
  8. #8  
    Thanks for the clarification on the Lanclet. What does the lack of replies suggest?
    A new Avatar to commemorate Silly Season.
  9.    #9  
    I think it means that it is hard to find a right wing spin on this sad story.
  10. #10  
    Well, makes you wonder what the real reason is for the Bush withdrawing the US from the International Criminal Court treaty...
    The WMD have to turn up today or tomorrow... otherwise there goes the "October Surprise"...

    Todays show is brought to you by the letter "W"
    Can you say "W"ar crimes tribunal....
  11. #11  
    from the yahoo article as posted above.

    There is no official figure for the number of Iraqis killed since the conflict began, but some non-governmental estimates range from 10,000 to 30,000.

    and

    estimates that as many as 100,000

    Certainly these are definitive numbers.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  12. #12  
    It's the most scientific study conducted to date woof, and involved actually going round and asking people. As far as I'm aware they're the only team that has done that all over Iraq. It's still only an estimate, but it's a conservative estimate based on research, not speculation.
    Animo et Fide
  13. #13  
    did you miss the fact that it says 100k in one sentence and the 10k to 30k in the next. Thats quite a range isnt it? Hardly conclusive evidence.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  14. #14  
    The Yahoo article is comparing different studies to each other, I'm saying the Lancet study is probably the most valid as more research has been done for it.
    Animo et Fide
  15. #15  
    The methodology is terrible and the results unreliable:

    http://www.chicagoboyz.net/archives/002543.html
    Laissez Faire
  16. Talldog's Avatar
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    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by prubin
    The methodology is terrible and the results unreliable:
    This kind of "study" doesn't even pass the laugh test. Of course, this is so typical of the left. They don't have the bodies or the graves, so they just make up a bogus "study". Just like with the supposedly 6 million homeless in the 80s, or the battered super bowl wives in the 90s.
    Talldog
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by santa
    100,000 people dead...

    but don't mess with those fertalized eggs that are about the be thrown out. That would be immoral
    This comment is so right on the money ... amazing how people are pro-life, but only in one aspect of the overall debate.

    What many people haven't factored in is our "shock and awe" campaign where no one really knows how many people were killed.

    You do know what's coming next, don't you? Well, THEY killed 3,000 of our people, so we have the right to go and kill somewhere between 30,000 to 100,000 of their civilians.

    As far as I know, no Iraqis killed any Americans on 9/11 ... all but one were Saudis. Perhaps we should have taken over that country instead?
    << My command as we escape Palm HQ with a new Pre 3>>.

    Treo 300 >> Treo 600 >> Treo 650 >> Treo 755 >> Instinct >> Pre- >> TouchPad
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by tjd414's signature
    If 50% of all marriages end in divorce, in what does the other half end?

    Ummm ... Death?

    So, which 50% do you want to be in?
    I know this is off the topic but is this supposed to suggest divorce is better than marriage?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by prubin
    The methodology is terrible and the results unreliable:

    http://www.chicagoboyz.net/archives/002543.html
    So it is the Chicagoboyz vs. The Lancet, a world-class, peer-reviewed scientific journal?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by Talldog
    This kind of "study" doesn't even pass the laugh test. Of course, this is so typical of the left. They don't have the bodies or the graves, so they just make up a bogus "study".
    This is totally lame. "Doesn't pass the laugh test"? Obviously you don't know how the scientific process works: A group of scientists does research, writes a paper, and sends it to the editor of a scientific journal. It takes quite a lot of self-confidence to send a paper to The Lancet, since they only publish the best-quality medical research. If the editors think the paper could be worth further examination, they will send the paper to a number of leading scientists in the field. Those will then study the paper, evaluate the methods used, the quality of the results, etc. Then they will either turn it down, ask for further clarification, or recommend publication. In the present case, the reviewers obviously recommended publicaion.

    I suspect Talldog knows close to nothing about the methods used in this research, so I think it takes quite a lot of arrogance to say they don't "pass the laugh test", and to call this study "bogus". I do understand though that he does not like the results and the implications.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
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