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  1.    #1  
    Nothing I could write about my objection to the Iraq war could be as powerful as what this woman writes - diary from baghdad.

    Anyone who thinks Bush has a clue and deserves your vote should read this account of the chaos currently reigning in Iraq, from the point of view of someone living there. Not a soldier, who lives in a camp, or a US imposed politician who only spends about 10% of their time there, a real person, very much like most people on this forum.
    Animo et Fide
  2. Talldog's Avatar
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    #2  
    My, that "Iraqi woman" has a remarkable command of the English language. Not to mention perfect grammer and in-depth knowledge of all the DNC talking points.
    Talldog
  3. #3  
    Did this "woman" write the documents for cBS too ???
  4.    #4  
    I've met plenty of people of all nationalities with good English and left of centre politics, what's your point? That the DNC has a better understanding of the world than the Repubs?
    Animo et Fide
  5. #5  
    She must be part French. Anyways for balance here is a oft quoted blog from a Iraqi citizen.

    http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/
  6. #6  
    We need to remember that many Iraqis (as well as many other nationalities) were educated in the US. Therefore I would assume they would have good communications skills.

    Personally, I felt that the points are well made. All we can do is read and make our own judgements. If you don't support the "war" then you probably agree with this blog. If you do support the "war" then you won't.

    It's free speech and it's great to be an American!
    << My command as we escape Palm HQ with a new Pre 3>>.

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  7. #7  
    I'm with you on that Peter. Of course, saying you met a European with left of center politics is like saying you've met, well, a European.
  8. #8  
    Well, you can certainly follow the link I posted and get a much different sense from other Iraqi people. Those who are overjoyed at getting a passport, being able to express an opinion, write poetry, not having their kids taken and maimed, not lying in mass graves or being brutalized in rape rooms, having their tongues cut out, being eaten alive by dogs etc. Thats why I feel they shouldn't view America as invaders and occupiers but as liberators. Those in concentration camps 50 years ago didn't see us as occupiers, sometimes war is the answer.

    Her piece was heartfelt in only the fact that it was full of hatred for America and it was certainly not well thought out. She made alot of assertions that she does not explain. She also condemns the war on Afghanistan which indicates where she is coming from.

    However I'm glad she has taken advantage of the freedom afforded to her by America and allies, that is the freedom to speak out against those that control your country. I doubt her tongue was as loose under Saddam.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by tjd414
    We need to remember that many Iraqis (as well as many other nationalities) were educated in the US. Therefore I would assume they would have good communications skills.
    Really? Have you scene American public skools? Their terible.


    Sorry, too easy. :-)
  10. Talldog's Avatar
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    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    I've met plenty of people of all nationalities with good English and left of centre politics, what's your point? That the DNC has a better understanding of the world than the Repubs?
    My point is that a typical American college graduate couldn't write a piece that polished. That combined with the fact that the letter hits just about all of the established Democrat talking points stongly indicates that it wasn't written by some "Iraqi woman".
    Talldog
  11. #11  
    I found the Iraqis I came into contact there to be extremely well educated. Most of them spoke proper British-style English.
  12. #12  
    By the way...
    Bagdad just called, they are running a lilttle short... can we send another 75 BILLION

    White House Weighs Price Tag on Emergency Request for Iraq
    By EDMUND L. ANDREWS
    Published: October 27, 2004
    [W] ASHINGTON, Oct. 26 - With no sign of a letup in the war in Iraq, the Bush administration is preparing another emergency request for tens of billions of dollars to cover military and civilian costs there through the fiscal year 2005.
    [snip - KR]
    Last edited by KRamsauer; 10/27/2004 at 11:20 AM.
  13. #13  
    LOL that was funny. If a typical Iraqi wrote that I'll eat my treo. What an obvious plant. Anything to win. Just like the crap in The Guardian in Britain, irrelevant. If you vote because of what some person from another country tells you to do you should pack up your **** and move there.

    There are plenty of iraqis that want us there so I'll vote for their side thanks. When Kerry loses maybe he can go to iraq and implement his 'plan' for them. They are having an election in January. I wonder what the dealine for him to announce is?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  14.    #14  
    What makes you think it's a plant Woof? Obviously it's not written by a 'typical' Iraqi, it's written by a well educated one. Have you read beyond the first post? I found it at least as believable as the other blog, which seemed to be from someone living in a quieter part. Maybe that's why he's more "pro-occupation"?

    Anyway, just thought it might give you another viewpoint on Iraq. The "pro" blogger mentions that there are many people who "anti", the blog I've provided is just from one of them, doesn't make it any less real.
    Animo et Fide
  15.    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by carter437
    I'm with you on that Peter. Of course, saying you met a European with left of center politics is like saying you've met, well, a European.
    It may come as a surprise to some americans but the is quite a fine balance between left and right in europe, President Chirac of France for example is right wing, as is Berlusconi in Italy. The fact one supports the Iraq war and one doesn't has nothing to do with being socialist or conservative.
    Animo et Fide
  16. #16  
    If you don't believe that source, how about this one. Below is an email update from a friend of a co-worker of mine who is a contactor in Iraq. His emails are getting grimmer and grimmer..

    [quote]
    Baghdad, October 24th, 2004
    *
    Hey All,
    *
    Have not written in quite a while, so just wanted to give you a brief update on what has been going on here in the Iraqi Capital.* I have now been in Iraq (Baghdad) for over a year, and I guess I have seen things go from bad to worse.* Every time I think we have hit bottom, things continue to go further south.
    *
    Arrived back here the 1st week in September after a 2+ week stint in the US, where it was great to see so many of you.* Spent a long weekend in Dubai on my way back*entertaining some customers of ours from the US Embassy here in Baghdad, which was not so bad.* Back here in Baghdad, cannot say the same.* Violence continues unabated, with the situation constantly spiraling out of control.* Attacks have become more and more brazen with larger more coordinated ones carried out in the capital itself.* Those fighting the occupying forces have consistently targeted Iraqi Military, National Guard and Police (those considered to be collaborating with the enemy).* They have killed an estimated 2000 (this does not include all the civilians who are killed) in the last year.* This has turned moral to an all time low and has made those who once wanted to side with the US turn against them and in some cases join the resistance.* Since when an occupying army comes and destroys an existing government that offered security and safety (to the Majority of Baghdad residents who did not speak out against the regime), and in return offers no sense of security to the people, it becomes quite unpopular.* The US military has been unable to even secure the 6 kilometer road (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...312646,00.html) from the Baghdad Airport to the International Zone (Former CPA), which is one of the most vital links in the country at this stage.* Today, both a Bradley and a US tank were attacked and on fire on the road and it was shut down.* Later today, another car bombed destroyed one of the gates to Camp Slayer, which is adjacent to the International Airport.* In the past weeks we have seen suicide bombs in the*Green Zone, multiple car bombs at the gate to the airport as well as numerous ones in downtown Baghdad.* In September, they recorded 52 car bombs in Baghdad alone, not sure of the October count.* The amount of mortars and rockets landing in the Airport and Green Zone has increased significantly.
    *
    Situation seems so dire that 2 weeks ago the US Military*brought Iraqi children from a school in nearby Baghdad (south Baghdad near our warehouse)*as well as many of*their parents to celebrate the opening of a new Water Sewage Plant.* Not sure how many of you have been to the Grand Opening of Water Sewage Plants in your respective countries, but due to the lack of anything else good happening here, this was looked upon as a*monumentous occasion.* Candy and balloons were handed out to the children and Baghdad television stations were invited to cover this big event.* Well, suicide bombers struck the event, 35 children were*ripped to shreds*as well as US Military personnel and ordinary Iraqi civilians.* Not sure who is more to blame on this one.* The US Military for sure since they brought children to the site where a large group of the Occupying army was gathering and of course any Iraqi parent who is stupid enough to allow their children to be in the presence of the*occupying military which is always a target.* Shrapnel ripped these poor children apart, when they should have been in school.* I think when you have to have a big celebration to announce the new opening of a water sewage plant 18 months after it was destroyed by coalition bombs, the situation can only be described as dire.
    *
    Much of the money allotted to rebuilding Iraq has been spent on security.**Most projects have been halted and ordinary Iraqi's are not able to find jobs.* The ones who risk working with the coalition are often killed.* Two more of our employees were given letters two days ago*that contained a bullet in an envelope and told that*if they kept working with*the Americans, they would be killed.* Our local manager is still hiding out in Syria after they threw grenades at his parent’s house and*threatened to kill him and our former secretary is in an undisclosed small village in Iraq with her Grandmother after*she received a note*where they told her that they would cut her head off if she continued working for foreigners.*
    *
    All that said, my job remains very busy here in Baghdad, and I now am managing 5 expats and 25 Iraqi’s. *Every day is complete chaos with gates being closed, mortars coming in, power going out, internet going down, but somehow we continue to adjust.* Not many companies capable of doing what we are doing at the moment, so we continue to provide cargo and logistics services to foreign and Iraqi companies throughout the companies.* I get so many phone calls with people begging for me to put proposals together for them that at this point I usually have to say no.* Just a lack of resources and turn down anything that is too dangerous at the moment.* We have struck big deals with the new US Embassy here, and just had an AN-124 (2nd largest plane in the world) arrive yesterday carrying 20 armored vehicles for the US Embassy.* I am heading to Amman early next week for a few days to wine and dine some more Embassy officials and expedite getting some of their vehicles and cargo from Jordan to Iraqi locations.
    *
    Well, can never really say that morale is high here, as it is sort of like a roller coaster.* We have not had water for a week so have had to take showers with bottled water, and even Gatorade on a couple of occasions.* Living and working in sea containers can get quite old after a while.* At some points when I am busy I just keep talking or typing instead of swatting at the mosquito that I know is biting me, as you just don’t care sometimes.* Still, the experience has been great, and I have learned so much from my entire expat staff.* The stories you trade at the end of the day and the dinners you have at your employee’s house are something that cannot be traded for anything else.* So many good people here, so many hard workers, I just really hope that someday this country can pull together because these people really deserve it.* Not many other places where people have suffered so miserably for the past 25 years.* Amazes me everyday that most of them show up to work with smiles on their faces, even when they explain to me that they are 20 minutes late because there is heavy fighting near their house.* Always an excuse to be a little late for work in Baghdad.
    [\quote]
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  17. Talldog's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    If you don't believe that source, how about this one.
    I'm not sure I understand your point. The "open letter" was an anti-Bush polemic, probably authored by an American Democrat. This email (which looks legit to me) is describing events in Baghdad, which admittedly are less than good. They aren't making the same point.

    Email: Things aren't good in Baghdad, and they're getting worse.

    Open letter: Bush lies, Bush is evil, Bush is destroying the world. Vote for Kerry.
    Talldog
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Talldog
    I'm not sure I understand your point. The "open letter" was an anti-Bush polemic, probably authored by an American Democrat. This email (which looks legit to me) is describing events in Baghdad, which admittedly are less than good. They aren't making the same point.

    Email: Things aren't good in Baghdad, and they're getting worse.

    Open letter: Bush lies, Bush is evil, Bush is destroying the world. Vote for Kerry.
    I worded it a bit confusing I see, I ment it as a real 'view from Bagdad' wasn't supposed to be backing or denying the other story...
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  19. #19  
    The polls of Iraqis (before Abu Girabe) show 80% of them mistrust the occupation authority. Can anyone honestly say it is better now?
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004May12.html
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...ll_051304.html
    btw, a World News Today poll shows very similar results.
  20. #20  
    Another point of view...

    ----------------------------


    LGF reader zygazint forwarded this terrific letter from a soldier, listing some of the major achievements in Iraq—achievements that mainstream media is determined not to show us.


    ***

    This is a letter from Ray Reynolds, a medic in the Iowa Army National Guard, serving in Iraq.

    As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home. And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you. This is the list of things that has happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is producing.)

    * Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
    * School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
    * Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur.
    * The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.
    * The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
    * Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.
    * The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.
    * 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.
    * Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place.
    * Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
    * Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
    * Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
    * Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.
    * Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever
    * Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.
    * An interim constitution has been signed.
    * National Elections are scheduled in January for the first time ever .
    * Girls are allowed to attend school.
    * Textbooks that don’t mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

    Don’t believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I have met many, many people from Iraq that want us there, and in a bad way. They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. So If you happen to run into John Kerry, be sure to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.

    Ray Reynolds, SFC
    Iowa Army National Guard
    234th Signal Battalion
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