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  1. Talldog's Avatar
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       #1  
    Talldog
  2. #2  
    A few questions:

    -What I cant understand is if U.S. troops SUPPOSEDLY allowed 380 tons of explosives that can be used to detonate nuclear warheads slip by them, why cant we consider them WMD?

    -Even if these weapons arent considered WMD, dont they fall in line with the weapons the United Nations was supposed to have inspected for, therefore showing the incompetency of the UN weapons sanctions on Iraq?

    -If this demonstrates UN competency, doesnt that strengthen Bush's case for war?

    -Lastly, doesnt this show that CBS may as well set up their headquarters at the DNC since this story broke way back in April 2003, was proved false within a month by an NBC team embedded with the troops, yet CBS still attempted to repackage it and air a story that could potentially harm Bush just 36 hours before an election?

    Just curious....

    -G
  3. #3  
    And John Kerry is grabbing on to this story as if with his last bit of stregnth before sinking... he mentioned it 6 times in the last 15 hours...

    comes to show you who we are dealing with...
  4. #4  
    The UN Inspection team did know about the explosives and had them in their watch list.

    They weren't guarded properly after the invasion.

    While they could be used to start a chain of events that could set off a nuclear bomb, I don't think that they are considered as WDM because they are only a possible component of a WDM.
  5. #5  
    This story also ran on BBC and NPR. Some Iraqi officials also spoke of the missing weapons.
  6. #6  
    The point of this story is that the most deadly weapon against our people has been IED's which this stuff is the explosive component of. Whether it was intentionally ignored in needing to be guarded or just another blunder by this administration, this group has failed the American people and more specifically they are failing our Military people who are in harms way.
  7. #7  
    No, The point of the story is, that the "UN" is an unreliable orgenization that couldn't watch over the weapons they knew about, and were suppose to guard... When our forces got there it was already gone !!!
  8. Talldog's Avatar
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       #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahootzki
    No, The point of the story is, that the "UN" is an unreliable orgenization that couldn't watch over the weapons they knew about, and were suppose to guard... When our forces got there it was already gone !!!
    Actually, those materials were supposed to be destroyed by the U.N. As far as the point about a blunder by the administration, forget for a minute that NBC'S embedded reporter has said the materials were gone when U.S. troops got there. How about talking to someone who has experienced the fog of war. It's not a social studies test, and Monday morning quarterbacks who think that anything short of perfect is evidence of incompetence are, to put it as gently as possible, uninformed.

    Furthermore, what I'm reading and hearing is that these materials would have filled 40 tractor trailers. Are we to believe that after U.S. forces were in the area, 40 tractor trailers managed to sneak away with nobody seeing them? On the other hand, in the last days before the invasion, Saddam was moving soldiers and supplies all over the country and into Syria. The U.S. couldn't do anything because we were still making every last effort at diplomacy. Gee, do you suppose they might have moved then?
    Talldog
  9. Talldog's Avatar
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       #9  
    .
    Last edited by Talldog; 10/26/2004 at 07:03 PM.
    Talldog
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHAnderson
    The UN Inspection team did know about the explosives and had them in their watch list.

    They weren't guarded properly after the invasion.
    Come Anderson, are you purposely ignoring the facts here??? They were "properly" guarded AFTER the invasion because the weapons disappeared BEFORE the invasion.

    April 9th - Liberation of Iraq

    April 10th - US Troops with imbedded NBC reporter arrive to secure 380 Tons of HMX & RDX... NONE FOUND

    APRIL 11TH - Another US unit arrives and does not find HMX or RDX

    April 27th - The Dump is inspected again and the weapons are reported missing.

    Hmmmm, lets see now... 38 truckloads of weapons that could not be found during 3 different inspections of the dump by coalition forces, were in fact stolen by looters in just 17 days because we failed to guard them properly???

    The left's logic...

    WMD
    1. The UN (and the rest of the world) knew he once had them and believed he still had them.
    2. After the invasion we could not find them.
    Therefore...
    3. President Bush lied.

    HMX & RDX
    1. The UN knew he had them
    2. After the invasion we could not find them.
    Therefore...
    3. They were stolen due to President Bush's incompetence.


    And one last point... if 380 tons of weapons could be spirited to locations unknown by persons unknown BERORE the invasion, how easy would it have been for the WMD to have gone the same route.
  11. #11  
    Seems to be fairly simple - UN inspectors DID find these weapons and were watching them. US told the UN inspectors to get out prior to invasion for their own safety. Iraq most likely moved these the moment inspectors were gone, thus they were gone by the time the US troops arrived.

    Even after two pints I can understand this
  12. #12  
    All I can say is...
    I am sure glad we got in there so we could control all those weapons once we found them! What an administration/pentagon/intelligance community full of F*** Ups!
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by TrySpammingMe
    All I can say is...
    I am sure glad we got in there so we could control all those weapons once we found them! What an administration/pentagon/intelligance community full of F*** Ups!

    Yunno it's funny you werent crying about the administration back in April when these weapons actually disappeared. The Bush administration had NOTHING to do with it. The weapons were moved before we even got there. Are you completely daft? Are you so full of liberal koolaid that you cant even see the facts? Are you really Michael Moore?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by TrySpammingMe
    All I can say is...
    I am sure glad we got in there so we could control all those weapons once we found them! What an administration/pentagon/intelligance community full of F*** Ups!
    Unbelievable! 2+2=5.

    I give up. It is impossible to reason logically with persons of illogical and unreasonable intellect.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by sanovak3681
    Seems to be fairly simple - UN inspectors DID find these weapons and were watching them. US told the UN inspectors to get out prior to invasion for their own safety. Iraq most likely moved these the moment inspectors were gone, thus they were gone by the time the US troops arrived.

    Even after two pints I can understand this
    That sounds most probable to me too, and I havent even had a pint..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  16. #16  
    The lengths to which liberals are willing to abandon common sense and logic for the sake of bashing the current administration is absolutely astounding. It seems to me that the left would like to have it both ways:

    THe Left: "There were never any WMD so Bush lied"
    but....
    The Left: "Bush is incompetent because he allowed 380 tons of high-level explosives that can be used to detonate nuclear warheads to mysteriously disappear after our invasion"

    Even if the latter of the statements is true, (which it isnt), doesnt one of those statements have to cancel the other out?

    -G
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by sanovak3681
    Seems to be fairly simple - UN inspectors DID find these weapons and were watching them. US told the UN inspectors to get out prior to invasion for their own safety. Iraq most likely moved these the moment inspectors were gone, thus they were gone by the time the US troops arrived.

    Even after two pints I can understand this

    It is simple and you almost have it right but you left out a date. The UN found these in 1995, but did nothing. When Sadamm threw them out, they did nothing. UN found them again in 2003 but did nothing. Thats about all the UN is good at, talking.

    If the UN was still there they'd sill be looking the other way while taking bribes from Saddam.
  18. #18  
    According to NPR, the UN seals were on the weapons on March 9 2003 (last visit by UN), and the explosives were gone when US troops went there to check on the weapons on May 27, 2003.

    March 19: US Invasion starts.

    April 3: the first US troops visit Al Qaqaa, but did not look for any explosives.

    April 10: The second set of US troops arrived, and the commander was not aware that it was a sensitive area and they and did not look for any explosives.

    May 27: US troops arrived for the third time and looked for the explosives but did not find any.

    Given the above time line, the explosives could have been taken anytime after March 9. There is no evidence that they were removed before the invasion, or after the invasion. My question is why weren’t the checked for on the first visit?


    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4129410
  19. #19  
    03Orange:

    As I mentioned before, the explosives by themselves they do not qualify as Weapons of Mass Destruction. Therefore, both of your statements could be true.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHAnderson
    According to NPR, the UN seals were on the weapons on March 9 2003 (last visit by UN), and the explosives were gone when US troops went there to check on the weapons on May 27, 2003.

    March 19: US Invasion starts.

    April 3: the first US troops visit Al Qaqaa, but did not look for any explosives.

    April 10: The second set of US troops arrived, and the commander was not aware that it was a sensitive area and they and did not look for any explosives.

    May 27: US troops arrived for the third time and looked for the explosives but did not find any.

    Given the above time line, the explosives could have been taken anytime after March 9. There is no evidence that they were removed before the invasion, or after the invasion. My question is why weren’t the checked for on the first visit?


    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=4129410
    I think NPR has the April 3rd date wrong. I think it was actually April 9th before the first US troops got there. Whatever, I have seen at least 3 different timelines now. It really does not matter.

    If one just applies a bit of logic to the story, there can only be one conclusion based on whatever timeline you use... THEY WERE MOVED BEFORE WE GOT THERE. Otherwise 380 tons of the stuff had to be secretly spirited away in less than 2 months, probably more like a month.

    During that time, trucks had to be secretly driven into the compound. 38 ten ton trucks or 760 half ton trucks. Or maybe they drove one of those mini pickups, the looters all seem to have, a couple thousand times. You get the point.

    The drivers had to know exactly which bunkers to empty. Then the stuff had to be carried by hand onto each truck. 380 tons carried by hand!! From the pictures I have seen of the stuff, it was small enough to carry, but my lord, how many trips would that be back and forth between the truck and the bunker. I suppose it's possible they had heavy equipment which they could have moved into the compound without notice along with their trucks, but even then how many trips would it take using the loading equipment.

    Assuming they used trucks, they then had to drive these trucks loaded with explosives out of the compound and down a road congested with convoys of coalition troops rolling to Bagdad. Not to mention all the check points they would have had to go through on their journey to where ever they went.

    Mayflower Movers couldn't do that job in 6 months under those conditions. If it did get moved during that time period, it should go down in history along side the building of the pyramids.

    Kerry says they were looted??? How do looters take 380 tons of anything and where do they take or hide it???

    Folks if we are missing that much stuff, it just does not make any sense to believe that the stuff was was moved on our watch. Use your heads!!!

    Could it be that the GW is playing out this rope for Kerry to hang himself? The real October surprise may come on Sunday or Monday when the Pres suddenly shows the world proof of what happened to the stuff? I got to thinking about this today when I heard a short report that the CIA or Pentagon may have surveillance pictures of large scale truck movements in this area before the war started. The report said that the pictures were highly classified and so there was reluctance to make them public.

    I may be wishfully thinking here but there may be more coming on this story and it probably will not be good news for John Kerry. The Sunday morning talking head shows are prime for a big surprise from either candidate.
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