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  1.    #61  
    oh enough, dhanderson, I already adressed this and have moved on. stop droning over a point that's been taken care of already.

    make your points. we'll go on from there. but make contributions, rather than going over this again and again.

    its been addressed. that's enough.
  2. #62  
    Back to the POINT of this thread. I saw the movie tonight. Very interesting, and worth seeing a Bush point of view (although I can't believe I PAID to see an hour long Bush advertisement)
  3. #63  
    by the way, Kerry is a Forbes, with plenty of money, so I don't know what's the point that he married a woman with a lot of money?
  4.    #64  
    the point of it was that someone was calling republicans machiavelian weasels. machiavelianism basically is about positioning friends, colleagues and peers around you for financial gain, while feigning friendship with them.

    using others to advance your position in life.

    kerry married a millionaire in heinz kerry. well, whether or not he married her for her means rather than out of love, it sure appears to be quite a prime example of acquiring a wife who happens to be a tycoon, and then goes on to run for the presidency, knowing the campaign effort will cost a LOT of money.

    well, I certainly have MY opinion on this one.
  5.    #65  
    before bush was ever in office, it was kerry who was pro-iraq war
  6.    #66  
    rather than a fresh start, itd be fresh hell. if he's all about the un, put kerry in charge of the un. let him deal w/ koffi annan doing the slow waltz of death while 8000 people are dying in sudan. years pass, thousands more die in sudan & and they're still talking about it.

    the un is the only organization whose process would make you want to perscribe ritalin to a glacier
    Last edited by treobk214; 10/23/2004 at 03:29 PM.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    machiavelianism basically is about positioning friends, colleagues and peers around you for financial gain, while feigning friendship with them.

    using others to advance your position in life.

    kerry married a millionaire in heinz kerry. well, whether or not he married her for her means rather than out of love, it sure appears to be quite a prime example of acquiring a wife who happens to be a tycoon, and then goes on to run for the presidency, knowing the campaign effort will cost a LOT of money.

    well, I certainly have MY opinion on this one.
    Machiavellianism:
    www.webster.com: the political theory of Machiavelli; especially : the view that politics is amoral and that any means however unscrupulous can justifiably be used in achieving political power.

    www.encarta.com: cunning and unscrupulous: using clever trickery, amoral methods, and expediency to achieve a desired goal, especially in politics (disapproving).

    The definition in the post fits quite well to nepotism, though. However, to me it seems far-fetched to assume that one multi-millionaire marries another in order to be able to run for presidency nine years later. But I guess in a certain state of mind, few things are too far-fetched.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  8.    #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Machiavellianism:
    www.webster.com: the political theory of Machiavelli; especially : the view that politics is amoral and that any means however unscrupulous can justifiably be used in achieving political power.

    www.encarta.com: cunning and unscrupulous: using clever trickery, amoral methods, and expediency to achieve a desired goal, especially in politics (disapproving).

    The definition in the post fits quite well to nepotism, though. However, to me it seems far-fetched to assume that one multi-millionaire marries another in order to be able to run for presidency nine years later. But I guess in a certain state of mind, few things are too far-fetched.

    you could make the argument of machiavellianism with the bush dynasty regarding nepotism, you have a point.

    i understood the term to relate to positioning others around you for financial benefit, but i see the definitions you`ve provided delineate the fact that it refers to using any method possible to achieve the desired goal politically... so i will stand corrected.

    but i still see kerry`s marriage with thereza heinz as a unique situation. while kerry was already well-off, apparently, one could still view the marriage to another millionaire as a calculated move.

    maybe it wasnt, it may have been out of love, and probably is. who knows? in any case, it is still an interesting relationship between the two.
  9.    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahootzki
    This is hilarius, everyone HAS to hear this

    Click here

    Great kerry ad
    THIS is probably the finest example of why kerry should NOT be the next us president. laying aside all my "angry" rants and heated opinions, this is in essence what i hope every undecided voter pays CLOSE attention to before choosing who to vote for as our president!

    nice job, mahootzki!
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    this is in essence what i hope every undecided voter pays CLOSE attention to before choosing who to vote for as our president!
    how about this?

    http://www.markfiore.com/animation/question.html

    or this?

    http://www.markfiore.com/animation/treason01.html

    Last edited by cellmatrix; 10/23/2004 at 04:21 PM.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Kerry was simply responding to the spin of this administration and don't suggest that Kerry had access to the same information. That has been insinuated by spinsters in the past and it's simply not true. I'm not going to watch a film specifically made to appear a certain way. That's like me pointing you to 9-11 to prove a point.

    Gotta respond to this guy....

    So I guess you havent seen Farencrap 9/11 then? For that matter I guess you have never seen any movies. I know it's not what you meant but all films are planned to appear a certain way. Any first year film school student could tell you that.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  12. #72  
    you guys don't understand, this is not a movie, it's a "docmentry" it MUST be true.

    And btw I am voting for Kerry, because people like Arafat, Chirac, NY Slimes Ect. are supporting him. (oh I forgot Eminem)
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mahootzki
    you guys don't understand, this is not a movie, it's a "docmentry" it MUST be true.
    yes and Fox news is "fair and balanced"

    speaking of fox, this is pretty funny:

    http://onion.com/wdyt/index.php?issue=4042
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 10/24/2004 at 10:01 AM.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    yes and Fox news is "fair and balanced"
    You are right, it's not fair and balanced, they have CBS, ABC, CNN, NBC, CNBC, ect. against them how is THAT fair and balanced, Huh
    so many against one is not fair and balanced...
  15. #75  
    So all the national TV news is left wing, except for Fox, who is just trying to let us know the straight stuff. Yes I have heard it before, but thanks for giving me something to chuckle about
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 10/24/2004 at 01:38 PM.
  16. KKenna's Avatar
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    419 Global Posts
    #76  
    Viva La Revolución

    In the several years since the WTC attacks, we have been immersed in a climate of fear. Millions of words have been written about how to prevent against terrorist attacks, from the complex (“I’ll invade Iraq because they’re friends with Saddam Hussein and he once embarrassed my CIA-dirty dad so he can go suck Texas bull’s balls”) to the simply vapid (“Go buy some duct tape and tarpaulins!”) That duct tape flap was so ridiculous I almost shat myself with embarrassment to be a citizen in such a pathetic, easily swayed country. I have in fact felt the same sentiment many times since.

    The United States of America, in its blind rush toward shortsighted greed and self-destruction, has become exactly what the Muslim, Asian and other critics of our nation have declared since we were all children: decadent.

    How else can we explain how we would allow this climate to prevail, in our supposedly educated, mature, kindly country? This is the single most important nation of modern times, and we’re seeing it vanish into a disgusting cistern of greed, hatred and fear. What happened?

    I quote Hermann Göering, Adolf Hitler's propaganda minister:
    "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

    How many times must we see this played out in the policies of the current administration before we understand that THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING IN THE UNITED STATES SINCE 2000? Do you not care that your very own nation, the town you came from, your home, your sense of family, and everything that you hold dear has now been corrupted to such an extent that maybe your cousin has now died in Iraq?

    The only way to fix what we have done is to VOTE. I don’t care who you vote for. Why? I know exactly who would win if everyone actually VOTED. Anyone But Bush, that’s who.

    How is your quality of life since this fascist became (vice) president? Are you making plenty of money, or are you just scraping by? How are your healthcare costs doing? How much do you pay for gasoline these days? Are you friendly to people in traffic, or are you so damned busy chasing your *** that you have no time to be nice? No? Why is that? Oh, you have to work extra hours to make ends meet too, do you? Sure, I know. I live here too. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out, if you care enough. If you do not, then good luck having any liberty left in 20 years.

    Bush and Kerry are nothing but a pair of clown shoes. Once I was ambidextrous, but now I’m left-handed. Though I love this country, I am a human being before I’m an American. When the leadership of this country violates such fundamental ideals, then it becomes fair game for the harshest criticism we can heap upon it. It also risks the most dreaded of all political movements: REVOLUTION.
  17.    #77  
    anyone but bush can have 11 positions on a war, and 8 positions on the troops fighting it.

    anyone but bush would have the courage to stand behind ALL those positions!

    careful what you wish for. though you may think anyone but bush now, you may be surprised as to how much worse things may get with someone like kerry in office.

    with all the flipflopping, you might reconsider.
  18.    #78  
    i love how the left attacks foxnews as not being fair and balanced

    do you think chris matthews, with hardball, as well as the other left winged stations are fair and balanced?

    please, lets not be ridiculous here. this makes me laugh
  19.    #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by KKenna
    Viva La Revolución

    In the several years since the WTC attacks, we have been immersed in a climate of fear. Millions of words have been written about how to prevent against terrorist attacks, from the complex (“I’ll invade Iraq because they’re friends with Saddam Hussein and he once embarrassed my CIA-dirty dad so he can go suck Texas bull’s balls”) to the simply vapid (“Go buy some duct tape and tarpaulins!”) That duct tape flap was so ridiculous I almost shat myself with embarrassment to be a citizen in such a pathetic, easily swayed country. I have in fact felt the same sentiment many times since.

    The United States of America, in its blind rush toward shortsighted greed and self-destruction, has become exactly what the Muslim, Asian and other critics of our nation have declared since we were all children: decadent.

    How else can we explain how we would allow this climate to prevail, in our supposedly educated, mature, kindly country? This is the single most important nation of modern times, and we’re seeing it vanish into a disgusting cistern of greed, hatred and fear. What happened?

    I quote Hermann Göering, Adolf Hitler's propaganda minister:
    "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

    How many times must we see this played out in the policies of the current administration before we understand that THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING IN THE UNITED STATES SINCE 2000? Do you not care that your very own nation, the town you came from, your home, your sense of family, and everything that you hold dear has now been corrupted to such an extent that maybe your cousin has now died in Iraq?

    The only way to fix what we have done is to VOTE. I don’t care who you vote for. Why? I know exactly who would win if everyone actually VOTED. Anyone But Bush, that’s who.

    How is your quality of life since this fascist became (vice) president? Are you making plenty of money, or are you just scraping by? How are your healthcare costs doing? How much do you pay for gasoline these days? Are you friendly to people in traffic, or are you so damned busy chasing your *** that you have no time to be nice? No? Why is that? Oh, you have to work extra hours to make ends meet too, do you? Sure, I know. I live here too. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out, if you care enough. If you do not, then good luck having any liberty left in 20 years.

    Bush and Kerry are nothing but a pair of clown shoes. Once I was ambidextrous, but now I’m left-handed. Though I love this country, I am a human being before I’m an American. When the leadership of this country violates such fundamental ideals, then it becomes fair game for the harshest criticism we can heap upon it. It also risks the most dreaded of all political movements: REVOLUTION.



    Originally Posted by heberman
    I think the Democrat arguments are more simple than that, and are designed to create fear: "If you vote for Bush, you may be drafted." It's a scare tactic, and scare tactics are used by both sides, but this one is completely without any basis in fact. I heard MTV's "Rock the Boat" spokesperson give that exact message, and she did it with a straight face.



    what do you think of this scare tactic? vote for bush, and you will get drafted. well, there is nothing the democrats are doing that would lead you to believe that THEY wouldnt use fear as a tactic, now are they?
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    there is nothing the democrats are doing that would lead you to believe that THEY wouldnt use fear as a tactic, now are they?
    Yes the Bush admin never uses fear as a tactic.

    btw

    I would say that is an orange alert fear post, no wait, I think we should upgrade that to a yellow alert fear post, whew, glad it is not a red alert fear post, that would be bad
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