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  1. g.711's Avatar
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       #1  
    Does the candidates stance on religion affect who you will vote for?

    In a nutshell here is how I understand the clear differences in the candidates views of how faith affects their judgment on issues.
    Bush – He believes in God and of course that affect his decisions.
    Kerry – He believes in the Catholic faith but he does not impose it on others?

    My opinion: If you don’t stand for something: you stand for nothing.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by g.711
    Kerry – He believes in the Catholic faith but he does not impose it on others?
    If Kerry couldn't keep the vows he made to his first wife, why does anyone think he'll be a trustworthy president? I get the impression that he was very Clintonesque even before we heard of Monica. All while he was still married. How Catholic are you if you find divorce the easy way out? He even tried to have his marriage annulled after 18 years and two daughters.

    Now let's hear how that has nothing to do with integrity
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  3. #3  
    Religion and values make a world of difference to me. I have no desire to see someone in office that has no values. The values do not need necessarily need to be exactly the same as mine though. In Kerry's situation, his values are zero values. He is an admitted war criminal who escaped punishment. Escaping punishment for admitted criminal violations that got others hard time.

    Religion? I practice the tenants of my faith. I believe in my faith. My faith has certain goals and stances. Kerry states he practiaces the tenants of his faith. Kerry is Catholic. I am Methodist. Kerry says he does not support abortion, but that he does not believe he has the right to oppose it, to place his values on another person. The Catholic Church is firm on abortion. The murder of the innocent is a violation of faith. To support it is a violation of faith. I do not condemn a woman who has an abortion, that is her decision. However, do not except me to support her decision with open arms. It just won't happen. I can understand and appreciate her decision; but when asked about it, I have no problems giving my opinion.

    In the abortion arena, I especially take to task late term and partial-birth abortions. There is no reason at all for partial-birth abortions. In addition, the argument about stem cells - research with adult stem cells is progressing, so why kill the innocent. We are nothing more than baby killing factories if we support fetal stem cell research using babies killed via abortion.

    Anyway, on the marriage thing, I really would like to know the details of his divorce. That has never been made public and I just bet that if his opponent were divorced and had not released the records, he (Kerry) would be yelling at the top of his lungs (and frankly, I hate hearing him yell. He sounds like a ...)

    Ben
  4. #4  
    ooo... didn't know that about kerry's attempt to annul his first marriage. wow. definitely a legitimate point against kerry's integrity there.
  5. #5  
    Did you know that Kerry will allow our tax money to fund partial birth
    abortions? Kerry is pro-choice.. (I withhold my personal opinion....)
    but
    Partial Birth Abortion is murder, and it's not a vague issue. If born,
    the
    baby would have a good chance of surviving on it's own. 7 months, like
    my
    daughter was when she was born. they go in and suck out their brains.
    It's
    barbaric! It would be bad enough to allow it by law, but to fund the
    poor,
    underprivileged's partial (or not) abortions with MY tax money is
    absolutely
    ridiculous !

    Kerry is in favor of Abortions performed on underage children WITHOUT
    notification of their parents !

    As for the United Nations.... France, Germany, and a couple others
    that
    said they would VETO any anti Irac vote at the UN were getting MILLIONS
    of
    dollars from the "food for oil" program. It just came out in the
    "Doeffler
    report" written by a UN inspector. France was selling them weapons and
    weapons parts up until 20 or 30 days before we attacked.... against UN
    Sanctions. Even the Head of the UN was getting MILLIONS of dollars in
    kick
    back from Saddam. The report has been widely accepted as true. IT's
    the
    same report that says that there were NO weapons of mass destruction.
    However, there was the will and the intelligence to re-open his
    manufacturing as soon as the UN made us back off. There was an Iraqi
    scientist interviewed on Fox News and he said that they buried their
    documents and formulas in their own backyards in order to maintain the
    integrity of their "know how" so they could re-start their program
    quickly.

    Stem cell research: Bush says that we have 22 "lines" (whatever that
    is)
    and that is supposedly enough for a lot of research. Bush isn't
    opposed to
    the research, or even getting more stem cell lines. HE IS AGAINST
    USING TAX
    MONEY to take stem cells from aborted babies. Kerry is for using tax
    money
    to take aborted babies and perform research. Bush is not stopping
    private
    money from doing research.

    Kerry said he would not raise taxes. LOL.... but he would remove the
    Bush
    Tax reduction act. Bottom line... our taxes will INCREASE. So, if you
    have
    rental property, better sell them now, because YOU ARE RICH. I expect
    that
    the low capital gains tax that we enjoy under Bush will disappear
    quickly,
    and I even expect it to be retro-active. Also, the stock market will
    re-act
    negatively to all of this... so watch out for your 401k money if Kerry
    wins.

    Did you know that in St Louis, the Democratic committee wants polls to
    open
    EARLY in democratic "under-privileged" areas for fear of
    dis-enfranchising
    them. They say that they need a fair chance to vote. Then why don't
    we
    keep the polls open in the white, privileged areas so execs. can get in
    a
    round of golf before voting !!

    There is a lot of spin out there. And I have not, personally, had a
    strong
    opinion on abortion. However.... this partial birth abortion deal has
    sent
    me over the edge.

    Just one more fact. Bush has strongly supported and funded programs
    for
    first time home ownership. The fact is that home-ownership is about
    70%
    ...the highest EVER. I can't find historic data at this minute, but
    from
    memory, believe it has been around 50-60% in recent years.
    I'll keep searching my mortgage sources...

    What does homeownership mean to us? It means more stable
    neighborhoods.
    Homeowners repel crime as they have a vested interest in their
    neighborhood.
    It's statistical, and I'll search for that info too. But HUD has used
    this
    basic premise in their drug campaign and home-ownership is vital to
    neighborhood revitalization.

    Fifty-seven percent of all renters say that they are very or somewhat
    likely
    to buy a home in the next three years** (Fannie Mae National Housing
    Survey,
    April 2004)

    Fannie Mae's American Dream Commitment® was a $2 trillion pledge to
    increase
    homeownership rates and serve 18 million targeted American families. In
    January 2004, Fannie Mae furthered that commitment and pledged to help
    6
    million families -- including 1.8 million minority families -- become
    first-time homeowners over the next decade.

    No one has talked about Bush's performance on the first debate having
    been
    affected by him just being tired. I believe he was touring Florida the
    day
    of and day before the first debate. Remember the hurricanes? Bad
    judgement
    on Bush's part? He was just pooped out. Never the less, his debate
    skills
    are not equal to that of a trial Attorney's. And especially one who
    has to
    practice what he's going to say for two days prior to each debate !

    FYI... "I am an Independent" <<<<<grin>>>>>
  6. g.711's Avatar
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       #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by dlbrummels
    ...daughter was when she was born. they go in and suck out their brains. It's barbaric! It would be bad enough to allow it by law, but to fund the poor, underprivileged's partial (or not) abortions with MY tax money is absolutely ridiculous !

    Kerry is in favor of Abortions performed on underage children WITHOUT
    notification of their parents !...

    Interesting points in view your avatar
  7. #7  
    great post, dbrummels! how shocking that partial-birth abortions would be funded by OUR tax dollars!

    frightening! and people are voting for this guy?!

    jeepers! gives me the shivers just thinking what he might do with us in that office.

    I hope bush brings that up in the next debate - this HAS to be brought out into the open!

    but most are so romanced by how much smoother he sounds than bush, no one seems to realize these frightening realities!

    let's not sleep through these alarm clocks, folks!
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    If Kerry couldn't keep the vows he made to his first wife, why does anyone think he'll be a trustworthy president?
    Do you admire Ronald Reagan? He was divorced too.

    I will cut you some slack in that you are obviously young and very naive. A LOT of people get divorced. That does not make them weak or immoral people. Many women leave marriages due to ABUSE. Are they not trustworthy people? Since the divorce rate is 50%, are you implying that 50% of people are not trustworthy, and if someone is divorced they are not fit to run for office?

    I also find it interesting that as Kerry's poll numbers increase, the desperation in posts like yours starts to become acute.
    Last edited by Eurokitty; 10/10/2004 at 01:46 PM.
  9. #9  
    Stem cell research performed in this country does not involve aborted fetuses so I have to assume that it wouldn't in the US either. The fetal cells come from an ova fertilised in the test tube - not in uterus. Now I understand that that situation brings up a whole new set of moral questions, but don't let's bring abortion into it.
    Animo et Fide
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurokitty
    Do you admire Ronald Reagan? He was divorced too.

    I will cut you some slack in that you are obviously young and very naive. A LOT of people get divorced. That does not make them weak or immoral people. Many women leave marriages due to ABUSE. Are they not trustworthy people? Since the divorce rate is 50%, are you implying that 50% of people are not trustworthy, and if someone is divorced they are not fit to run for office?

    I also find it interesting that as Kerry's poll numbers increase, the desperation in posts like yours starts to become acute.
    First...I dont think Reagen was Catholic. Second, he wasnt a philanderer like Kerry.

    Your input about divorce, while interesting, has nothing to do with the fact that Kerry cheated on his sick wife, asked the church to annull his marrage after 18 years(including 6 years of seperation), then finally divorced her when he couldnt get the annullment.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    First...I dont think Reagen was Catholic. Second, he wasnt a philanderer like Kerry.

    Your input about divorce, while interesting, has nothing to do with the fact that Kerry cheated on his sick wife, asked the church to annull his marrage after 18 years(including 6 years of seperation), then finally divorced her when he couldnt get the annullment.
    ReagAn. That's how it's spelled.

    So your judgmental attitude about divorced people ONLY applies to Catholics?

    Please post a link that proves that Kerry cheated on his wife? Again, does this standard also apply to Republicans like Newt Gingrich?

    From what I've read, Julia Kerry suffered from depression and was not happy living the lifestyle of the wife of a politician. I think it is also very dubious that the former Mrs. Kerry filed suit against her former husband in court seven weeks before he was getting married to Tereza, demanding an increase in her child support payments. (In case you weren't aware, it is illegal for States to take into account the income of a new spouse when determining child support payments.) Julia Kerry is (and was) a very wealthy woman in her own right, so one can only assume that the suit on the eve of his second wedding was filed purely out of spite.

    As for annulments: unfortunately the Catholic church will not allow Catholics to remarry in the church without first getting an annulment of the previous marriage. For people whose Catholic faith is meaningful to them, this is a real problem and it needs to change.
    Last edited by Eurokitty; 10/10/2004 at 03:00 PM.
  12. KBS
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    First...I dont think Reagen was Catholic. Second, he wasnt a philanderer like Kerry.

    Your input about divorce, while interesting, has nothing to do with the fact that Kerry cheated on his sick wife, asked the church to annull his marrage after 18 years(including 6 years of seperation), then finally divorced her when he couldnt get the annullment.
    First, a divorce is a civil action and an annullment is a church action required by the Catholic church if one wishes to be able to remarry in the church. It is quite common for Catholics to have marriages annulled that have been long and produced children.

    Annullments aren't recognized in the courts. Divorces are.

    Second, where do you get your "facts" about Kerry's divorce and affair. After reading your posts, I did some (admittedly) brief research and the only sites taking about Kerry's divorce had obvious anti-Kerry agendas.

    Reading these posts, it appears that, even though I am independent and leaning towards Kerry for numerous reasons, I am in the minority here at TC.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurokitty
    ReagAn. That's how it's spelled.

    So your judgmental attitude about divorced people ONLY applies to Catholics?

    Please post a link that proves that Kerry cheated on his wife? Again, does this standard also apply to Republicans like Newt Gingrich?

    From what I've read, Julia Kerry suffered from depression and was not happy living the lifestyle of the wife of a politician. I think it is also very dubious that the former Mrs. Kerry filed suit against her former husband in court seven weeks before he was getting married to Tereza, demanding an increase in her child support payments. (In case you weren't aware, it is illegal for States to take into account the income of a new spouse when determining child support payments.) Julia Kerry is (and was) a very wealthy woman in her own right, so one can only assume that the suit on the eve of his second wedding was filed purely out of spite.

    As for annulments: unfortunately the Catholic church will not allow Catholics to remarry in the church without first getting an annulment of the previous marriage. For people whose Catholic faith is meaningful to them, this is a real problem and it needs to change.
    When you really have nothing else to say, you can always bring up the spelling and punctuation.

    Newt Gingrich isnt running for President, so why bring him up. The question is about Kerry. If you want a link, Google Kerry and divorce. There are plenty to choose from. They will even tell you who he "dated" while still married.

    Im not Catholic, but it seems that you have also decided that as a religion, they are also wrong, and dont fit the way things should be in your mind.

    I would suspect that at the end of the day, you must be completely exhausted, having to battle all of the worlds injustices, and slam everyone that doesnt hold your viewpoints.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  14. #14  
    Opinions about Kerry in this post and others on TC begin to sound like a witch-hunt. His wife is at fault for keeping her Heinz name. Kerry is now being accused of marital shenanigan behaviors. Cheating his country. What's next?
    You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing.
    -Michael Pritchard
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    I would suspect that at the end of the day, you must be completely exhausted, having to battle all of the worlds injustices, and slam everyone that doesnt hold your viewpoints.
    The difference is that I actually have a brain, and you are a kool-aid drinker.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    When you really have nothing else to say, you can always bring up the spelling and punctuation..
    Funny YOU should say that! Read the quotes below, clairegrrl:
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Sorry to have to correct you oops and chick, since you are both teachers and all, but the expression is "moot point", not mute.
    And:
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Dotbaby...are you trying to "mute" me
    Quote Originally Posted by TxDot
    Well that's better than trying to moot you.
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Hehehehe
    And of course we know that ChickDance NEVER used the word "mute" and you accused her of doing so...
    Last edited by Oops; 10/10/2004 at 03:28 PM.
    You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing.
    -Michael Pritchard
  17. KBS
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    When you really have nothing else to say, you can always bring up the spelling and punctuation.

    Newt Gingrich isnt running for President, so why bring him up. The question is about Kerry. If you want a link, Google Kerry and divorce. There are plenty to choose from. They will even tell you who he "dated" while still married.

    Im not Catholic, but it seems that you have also decided that as a religion, they are also wrong, and dont fit the way things should be in your mind.

    I would suspect that at the end of the day, you must be completely exhausted, having to battle all of the worlds injustices, and slam everyone that doesnt hold your viewpoints.
    No offense Chickdance, but I believe YOU are the one doing the slamming. A couple of posters asked you where you are getting your information (me included) amd you take offense to the question. If you can show us an unbiased, repeat - unbiased, account of the divorce, show us.

    Furthermore, if a person has been separated for a number of years (6, according to you), the fact that he dated some women isn't a real deal breaker for me (and I am a woman).
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by KBS
    No offense Chickdance,


    Don't insult our darling Chickdance that way!
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by KBS
    No offense Chickdance...
    Are you comparing clairegrrl to the Chick? Gosh, you are in trouble!!!
    You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing.
    -Michael Pritchard
  20. #20  
    Just as in any other venue where religion might be discussed (church, family, coworkers, etc.) there is frequently some give-and-take when you are discussing your beliefs versus others. So far, there hasn't been and probably never will be candidate who shares my religious views AND political views in total -- that is just too rare and far-fetched. So, many of us are left to weigh how the candidate feels on the most important issues that affect our government or our lives. Do we vote for the candidate who agrees with us on abortion, gay marriage, prayer in schools, etc.? Or do we consider issues such as the environment, foreign policy, other domestic freedoms, military actions and the economy?

    No doubt that there are some of us who can truly support a candidate who shares their religious and political beliefs for the most part. I, for one, find the decision very difficult but am at the same time deeply appreciative to live in a country that affords me this opportunity...

    Each of us has his or her own way of making these decisions and so my hope is that folks have and take the opportunity to carefully and thoughtfully consider their vote beforehand.

    Regards,
    Mike
    Last edited by work2fish; 10/10/2004 at 03:54 PM.
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