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  1.    #1  
    It took Annan over a year to decide that the war in Iraq was illegal under the terms of the UN Charter. Interesting that the election is six weeks away. Is Mr Annan casting his vote?
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  2. #2  
    It's hardly the first time that Kofi Annan has been critical of the action in Iraq.
    Animo et Fide
  3. #3  
    He is certainly trying to make sure his voice is heard. I suspect we'll get more exciting leftwing commentary from him before the election. Will it really matter? I doubt it. Since he and none of his cronies can vote and it's already been made clear how much importance our president puts on foriegn opinion.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    He is certainly trying to make sure his voice is heard. I suspect we'll get more exciting leftwing commentary from him before the election. Will it really matter? I doubt it. Since he and none of his cronies can vote and it's already been made clear how much importance our president puts on foriegn opinion.
    Foreign? Did you mean other?
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Foreign? Did you mean other?
    I meant the opinions of foriegn governments.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  6. #6  
    Say goodbye to the UN...
    I thought we did when we told them "we would go it alone" in Iraq!


    Boy, I guess WE told THEM !!!

    p.s. If anyone knows of any countries that are interested in joining the exclusive club, "the coalition of the willing", please call the White House and ask for the village *****... They will accept collect calls if the country can't afford to place a long distance call.White House operators are standing by to take your call!
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by TrySpammingMe
    Say goodbye to the UN...
    I thought we did when we told them "we would go it alone" in Iraq!


    Boy, I guess WE told THEM !!!

    p.s. If anyone knows of any countries that are interested in joining the exclusive club, "the coalition of the willing", please call the White House and ask for the village *****... They will accept collect calls if the country can't afford to place a long distance call.White House operators are standing by to take your call!
    And this adds what to the discussion?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  8. #8  
    I for one do not think we should quit the UN. Lets act like the leader of the free world here, and start using diplomacy effectively. I do not care if people think that Iraq is wrong or right, we need to get beyond that now and look at the big picture. This go it alone mentality is counterproductive.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 09/16/2004 at 10:38 PM.
  9.    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    Interesting topic clairegrrl!
    I get frustrated with the UN, despite this organization's immensely noble philosophy. The UN's political canonized-maneuvering reminds me at times a "typical" government full of politicians. So I chose to separate the "UN Politicians" from the good-deed-doers: The army of volunteers that endanger their own lives in places such as Afghanistan, Iraq, or the Middle East.
    What Mr Annan says really has little influence on the US or the world at large, and even less so on the elections here. Nevertheless, I am glad Mr Annan says what's on his mind and heart (representing the UN in the process).
    The United Nations is a dysfunctional group of regional special interests whose only consensus is that the richest, most powerful member is bad. The U.N.'s commitment to good deeds is certainly not being matched by any commitment to democratic change in two countries liberated by the U.S. military from brutal regimes. I guess we are being taught a lesson

    This mentality of "World Government" creates nations incapable of defending thenselves. I think with the exception of the Brits, the EU is a perfect example of the inept trying to flex puny muscles.

    Maybe we should just have the UN move to Paris and be done with it.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  10.    #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by TrySpammingMe
    please call the White House and ask for the village *****...
    Hey spamboy...I didnt know you worked at the White House
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  11. #11  
    I too agree the US needs to get out of the UN and kick the UN out of the US. We support it and get blasted by it constantly. Use the property for something vastly more important than the UN. Ben
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    I too agree the US needs to get out of the UN and kick the UN out of the US. We support it and get blasted by it constantly. Use the property for something vastly more important than the UN. Ben
    I don't believe the US owns the property or has any jurisdiction over it, it's like any embassy in that respect. In any case the security council is only a small part of the UN, even if it is the most high-profile. As for getting blasted by it constantly, I don't believe that's really true except over Iraq. Doesn't that tell you something about the whole Iraq situation?
    Animo et Fide
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    The U.N.'s commitment to good deeds is certainly not being matched by any commitment to democratic change in two countries liberated by the U.S. military from brutal regimes.
    "Liberated", er, that's a tricky one! The phrase 'out of the frying pan into the fire' springs to mind.
    Animo et Fide
  14.    #14  
    "There is no margin for error about a monstrosity that was created for the alleged purpose of preventing wars by uniting the world against any aggressor, but proceeded to unite it against any victim of aggression. The expulsion of a charter member, the Republic of China [Taiwan]—an action forbidden by the U.N.'s own Charter—was a 'moment of truth,' a naked display of the United Nations' soul.

    What was Red China's qualification for membership in the U.N.? The fact that her government seized power by force, and has maintained it for twenty-two years by terror. What disqualified Nationalist China [Taiwan]? The fact that she was a friend of the United States. It was against the United States that all those beneficiaries of our foreign aid were voting at the U.N. It was hatred of the United States and the pleasure of spitting in our face that they were celebrating, as well as their liberation from morality—with savages, appropriately, doing jungle dances in the aisles."
    — AYN RAND


    I dont know about the jungle dance part but the rest of the quote seems ok
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  15. #15  
    That's a very strange view of history! "Red China" was the effective winner of the civil war they had, that's what disqualified the Nationalists, they lost the war. You wouldn't expect the UN to let in the Confederacy to represent the US would you?
    Animo et Fide
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    That's a very strange view of history! "Red China" was the effective winner of the civil war they had, that's what disqualified the Nationalists, they lost the war. You wouldn't expect the UN to let in the Confederacy to represent the US would you?
    I thought they were 2 seperate countries. China and Tiawan. China being a communist dictatorship and Tiawan a democracy. Am I wrong about that part?
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  17. #17  
    Yes, both governments claim to be the true government of China. Taiwan has at no time declared independance from China, both governments see Taiwan as part of China and themselves as the government of all China. Since the government in Bejing clearly controls all of China except the island of Taiwan it's normally recognised as the government of China. You can't really have representatives from two governments for the same country at the UN.
    Last edited by PeterBrown; 09/17/2004 at 05:15 AM.
    Animo et Fide
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    I thought they were 2 seperate countries.
    The first sentence in this article sums it up fairly well:
    The political status of Taiwan is controversial...
    Apparently the U.S. regards Taiwan not as an independent country but as part of the Republic of China. The People's Republic of China (different from the Republic of China) doesn't recognize the Republic of China. Taiwan occasionally sort of speaks up for itself, too, and makes noises about the "Republic of Taiwan." So it's a bit of a mess.

    You are correct, though, in that the island of Taiwan is generally a democracy and mainland China is a communist nation.

    PeterBrown, on the other hand, is correct in that the U.N. recognizes the People's Republic of China and, correspondingly, doesn't recognize either an independent Taiwan or the Republic of China.

    Now if I could just get someone to recognize my personal island nation...
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    Yes, both governments claim to be the true government of China. Taiwan has at no time declared independance from China, both governments see Taiwan as part of China and themselves as the government of all China. Since the government in Bejing clearly controls all of China except the island of Taiwan it's normally recognised as the government of China. You can't really have representatives from two governments for the same country at the UN.
    Well that makes sense. Pick the totalitarian not the democtaric government. Pick the government with the human rights violations. But it all fits. Most of the UN Human Right Commission abuse the rights of their citizens. China, Cuba, Sudan, Saidi Arabia, Syria , and of course the US was voted out. Well so much for the UN. It doesnt support democracy, nor is it a defender of human rights.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Well that makes sense. Pick the totalitarian not the democtaric government. Pick the government with the human rights violations. But it all fits. Most of the UN Human Right Commission abuse the rights of their citizens. China, Cuba, Sudan, Saidi Arabia, Syria , and of course the US was voted out. Well so much for the UN. It doesnt support democracy, nor is it a defender of human rights.
    Recognising reality is also an important part of the UN's function. Just because someone is democratic it doesn't mean they have control of a country, or any right to it. Don't forget that the current status of Taiwan has come about largely because of the civil war in China after WW2 when the Kuomintang Nationalist forces retreated there. The Kuomintang forces were certainly not democrats any more than the Communists were.
    Animo et Fide
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