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  1. #61  
    Well said and look at the name calling liberals participate in. It has been demonstrated throughout many threads on this board.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by Theta
    I will answer the question for you. It is a well documented fact (you can google to prove this to yourself, just give me a few hours to make a nice webpage that says it) that liberals tend to argue emotionally, and not logically.

    When confronted with factual information, the liberal will either reply with inane comments - something like "yeah, well, sos your mother" or "that may be true, but he still wears ugly shoes" - or attack the source of factual information - "Foxnews, well that says it all." while listening to NPR and Dan Rather for the truth.

    Liberals don't go with the option that seems the most logical in the real world, but rather what would give the most "warm fuzzies" in a perfect world.

    I don't says that all conservatives are logical, but only that liberalism avoids logic.
  2. #62  
    As for your views on terrorism Ben, I think you'll find the US was virtually unique in the small amount of terrorism committed there before 9/11. France and Russia have been dealing with it for years.
    Animo et Fide
  3. #63  
    Being there and monitoring is far from providing any real aid. The real aid comes in the form of money and who provides that money? The US and Britain. Let the USA one time veto an action and hear the *****ing. It is rare the US balks at something, but not the other way around. Also re Indonesia, that is sectarian strife and has been going on for years. If it ends, good, but chances are it will continue in one form or another. The Congo though and its elections - that comes and goes with the wind. Another song of the past. Sure, we all read about the history of the Congo and its violent past.

    Ben



    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    The UN recently helped a part of Indonesia to independence ending years of suppression, also in recent years it's helped calm down the situation in the Congo to the point where elections can take place. Need any more examples?
    Surely you'll have seen all this on the news though?
  4. #64  
    Peter, why is it so relunctant to deal with it now? Could it be due to its present governmenet? In the past France was proud of its position in the world, of the ideals it represented, of the freedom of its people and their right to be themselves. Now in France those are somewhat of the past. The government is in its citizen's daily lives and directs many of their functions. Open religion? a thing of the past. Everyone looks and acts the same - the new social order of France. Count me out. France has in the past been involved - now it avoids it and avoiding it will cost them dearly.

    The US being surrounded by miles and miles and miles (another song) of ocean and basically friendly countries to its north and south, has been very lucky. We have had problems in the past, though they have been rare. Now though with the advent of modern travel and technology, we are not so isolated. In addition, due to our very lax border control, we are very exposed to terrorism.


    Ben



    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    As for your views on terrorism Ben, I think you'll find the US was virtually unique in the small amount of terrorism committed there before 9/11. France and Russia have been dealing with it for years.
  5. #65  
    Have we got someone monitoring and editing these posts? This is the second time I see something that I did not enter - the third line below. If someone is editing these posts, then could that person be one who fears controversy and tries to appease everyone? The way I used "*****ing" is not done in a derogatory manner. Whoever changed it, please put it back the way it was. Its current content could very easily make it seem to be something much worse.

    Ben

    ============================

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Being there and monitoring is far from providing any real aid. The real aid comes in the form of money and who provides that money? The US and Britain. Let the USA one time veto an action and hear the *****ing. It is rare the US balks at something, but not the other way around. Also re Indonesia, that is sectarian strife and has been going on for years. If it ends, good, but chances are it will continue in one form or another. The Congo though and its elections - that comes and goes with the wind. Another song of the past. Sure, we all read about the history of the Congo and its violent past.

    Ben
  6. #66  
    I see this is an automatic editing thing. Most disagreeable to think that a machine is deciding what is and is not acceptable. Must be a liberal machine at that. I wonder if it has any inclination in the faith area. Ben
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    As for your views on terrorism Ben, I think you'll find the US was virtually unique in the small amount of terrorism committed there before 9/11. France and Russia have been dealing with it for years.
    Not to mention Italy and the UK. The US only began to worry about terrorism when it got close to home. We are a bunch of whiners. Imagine if it had been Americans, rather than the British, that had to endure the bombing of London, or for that matter, Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Cambodia, or Baghdad. We need a little sense of proportionality here. Suck it up, guys! If we are to be the "world's only superpower," we need to behave, and yes, sound, like grownups.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by Theta
    I will answer the question for you. It is a well documented fact (you can google to prove this to yourself, just give me a few hours to make a nice webpage that says it) that liberals tend to argue emotionally, and not logically.
    Hahaha! Well documented fact? Documented by who, you?! How LOGICAL! I guess MIT did a scientific research on liberals?
    Last edited by zackz; 09/18/2004 at 01:25 PM.
  9. #69  
    I guess you consider yourself to be a little left of center? Making fun of someone, ridiculing another person. Case closed!! Pointed out by "Documented by who, you?!"

    Ben

    -----------

    [QUOTE=zackz]Hahaha! Well documented fact? Documented by who, you?! How LOGICAL! I guess MIT did a scientific research on liberals?[/QUOTE
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Peter, why is it so relunctant to deal with it now? Could it be due to its present governmenet? In the past France was proud of its position in the world, of the ideals it represented, of the freedom of its people and their right to be themselves. Now in France those are somewhat of the past. The government is in its citizen's daily lives and directs many of their functions. Open religion? a thing of the past. Everyone looks and acts the same - the new social order of France. Count me out. France has in the past been involved - now it avoids it and avoiding it will cost them dearly.
    France is a secular country and always has been. That is why a ban on religious symbols in public schools was able to be enacted. I have spent a great deal of time there, and the attitude there is, "if you come live in France, you shall become FRENCH". It has always been that way. No bilingual ballots, no ESL-type language programs in the schools. It is all about "la France", and they like it that way.

    As for "freedoms", many of the old Napoleonic laws are still in place. The legal system is archaic. Did you know that you are guilty until proven innocent and can be arrested and held in jail without charges in France for ANY length of time? It has been like that since the days of Napoleon.

    The political infastructure of France has always been the same, the problem is that the population has changed. The radical Islamic element there is growing and by the year 2006 it is estimated that there will be more mosques than other types of churches in France. France has the highest number of muslims in their population of any country in the EU (when/if Turkey is admitted, then they will then be the largest).

    After September 11, American expats in France were warned not to fly American flags outside their homes because there were firebombings by Algerian gangs. Jewish businesses have also been attacked as well. There were subway bombings in the 90's and a huge problem with Algerian and North African gangs in the South of France.

    Many of the muslims in France are "sans papiers" (undocumented). This has put France in a kick me/kiss me situation. These undocumented people are a great source of cheap labor. The French view tax evasion as a much admired sport, and for that reason, there is a big market for undocumented workers there. Many ethnically French people view these immigrants as cattle and treat them as such. They need them, yet they despise them.
    Last edited by Eurokitty; 09/18/2004 at 04:00 PM.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Theta
    I will answer the question for you. It is a well documented fact (you can google to prove this to yourself, just give me a few hours to make a nice webpage that says it) that liberals tend to argue emotionally, and not logically.
    Nice logic! Let's see if a webpage makes it a well doucmented fact that 'all liberals tend to argue emotionally not logically', (what a sweeping generalization!), then a 'documentary' makes an absolute truth? Michael Moore anyone!

    By the way, I'm not ridiculing or making fun of anyone, but claiming that by taking a few hours to make a nice webpage, one can prove that 'all liberals tend to argue emotionally and not logically' ...well that was certainly amusing! Not some, not most, but ALL liberals!

    I rest my case!
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by zackz
    Nice logic! Let's see if a webpage makes it a well doucmented fact that 'all liberals tend to argue emotionally not logically', (what a sweeping generalization!), then a 'documentary' makes an absolute truth? Michael Moore anyone!

    By the way, I'm not ridiculing or making fun of anyone, but claiming that by taking a few hours to make a nice webpage, one can prove that 'all liberals tend to argue emotionally and not logically' ...well that was certainly amusing! Not some, not most, but ALL liberals!

    I rest my case!
    talk about an emotional response.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  13. #73  
    I sure hope we are not taking Michael Moore and his trash as the truth. He is a sensationalist, not a historian.

    As for needing them, not at all. The problem is the falling birth rate throughout Europe. The political and religious face of Europe is rapidly changing and pretty soon, France will see a big change. Secular? Wait until the Muslim population gains control. Not saying good or bad, but there will be a big change and it will not be to the advantage of other minorities. France will not be what it is now. Ben
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    I sure hope we are not taking Michael Moore and his trash as the truth. He is a sensationalist, not a historian.

    As for needing them, not at all. The problem is the falling birth rate throughout Europe. The political and religious face of Europe is rapidly changing and pretty soon, France will see a big change. Secular? Wait until the Muslim population gains control. Not saying good or bad, but there will be a big change and it will not be to the advantage of other minorities. France will not be what it is now. emphasis added. Ben
    And I say praise Allah for that! Have you been there lately Ben? France is headed down the tubes!! Their wine is getting to be more expensive then water! And I had a bad meal there! I was mortified! Which is a French word for being walled up inside of a brick wall ala "A Cask of Amontallido.".
    "Do the Chickens have large talons?" Napoleon Dynamite
  15. #75  
    Erm, jpahl, were you insinuating that I'm an American? I'm English! I have a Northern Irish mother so I consider myself a citizen of the UK rather than just England.
    Animo et Fide
  16.    #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by jpahl
    This thread has been pretty depressing reading....The best I can say is better than cuba, and even cuba knows the different between reporting the middle east and parroting pro-israeli propaganda.......
    How can such deep flaws be address? I don't know, and even wonder if a cure could only come from facing the abyss. I hope my pessimism is proved wrong.
    It's such a wonderful world you live in where the source of all its ills can be laid at the feet of the US, Jews and Fox News. What is really depressing is that I think you believe your perceptions are correct and the only way things in the world will improve is if we accept your ethics, your morality and your anti-semitic bigotry.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  17. #77  
    jpahl, the answer to your ultimate question is "leadership." Unfortunately, we now treat our leaders so shabbily that no one wants the jobs. Those with character and gravitas will not waste it. National leaders cannot be elected so we elect southern governors. We are left with empty suits.

    In the absence of leadership we permit ourselves to be distracted, not to say manipulated, by school prayer, flag burning, gay marriage, immigration, the price and use of drugs (both legal and illegal), airline secuity, the Vietnam war, black helicopters, and the candidate's favorite sport or beverage. More people will select their candidate based on the role of the government in their neighbors' bedroom than on that of our country in the world.

    Our political parties are empty shells without ideas, accountability, programs, or cadres. Thus our administrations are populated with cronies of the newly elected governors.

    History does not offer much hope. It suggests that in the absence of true leadership and the ability to recognize it, we are vulnerable to demagogues.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    jpahl, my pot was cut off by my Treo.
    I am assuming that your Treo was tried of you eating all the Cheetos and Ring Dings in the house?
    "Do the Chickens have large talons?" Napoleon Dynamite
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    How did you know I am a vegetarian? (Actually my Treo was jealous of me eating fish...)





    "Do the Chickens have large talons?" Napoleon Dynamite
  20. #80  
    About 28 years ago I roamed through the area on assignment. A brief stay and lovely it was and a friend or two made. As an American, I was not overly popular, but not hated. I guess that started a while afterwards. People there were not yet totally under the power of what is now a totally secular government bent on keeping everyone in line in as humane a manner as possible. People still expressed their feelings in open, Christianity was still around, et cetera.

    Immigration and what it means is a factor that every western country has to deal with. In the past, assimilation into the culture was desired result. Now though, it is the other way around. In Italy do as the Italians do and now, do as the new comers do. The control of immigration (not to stop it) with the intention of keeping the undesireables out is badly needed. Cultural values are changing everywhere and that is not necessarily the best thing.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by ACDriver
    And I say praise Allah for that! Have you been there lately Ben? France is headed down the tubes!! Their wine is getting to be more expensive then water! And I had a bad meal there! I was mortified! Which is a French word for being walled up inside of a brick wall ala "A Cask of Amontallido.".
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