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  1.    #1  
    Palm III > HS Visor > Treo 600 > Treo 650 > Treo 750 > Treo Pro > PrePlus GSM

    "95% of all software issues are due to USER ERROR."
  2. #2  
    Can you "feel" the love...can you say speculum?
    Well behaved women rarely make history
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    #3  
    I almost want to vote for him so I can enjoy four more years of stuff like this.
    Less than 400 posts to get my own little treo icon!
  4. #4  
    Well, why is anyone surprised....
    His dad is still amazed that a cash register can read what an item is.......

    Re-Elect the village *****!
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by TrySpammingMe
    His dad is still amazed that a cash register can read what an item is.
    I glad someone else remembers that.
  6. #6  
    His statement addresses directly the trial lawyer who specializes in the outright abuse of our legal system. Specifically lawyers like John Edwards - he made his fortune with class action law suits that drove many OBGYN doctors out of business. The background is there for the reading. It is because of people like John Edwards that medical costs are as high as they are - insurance is sky high. It is in dire need of a controlling action. If the Kerry-Edwards team makes it to the plate, you can dang well bet the cost will continue to increase.
    Ben
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    His statement addresses directly the trial lawyer who specializes in the outright abuse of our legal system.
    Lawyers work within a legal framework established by politicians (Edit: politicians here meaning members of the legislative) who were elected by the people. There is no way you can call it abuse, because if it was abuse, the judges would not rule in favour of those lawyers.

    Still, the laws may be stupid, but that is not the lawyer's fault.

    Besides, did you get the "joke" by Bush? "We've got an issue in America. Too many good docs are getting out of business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country."
    Last edited by clulup; 09/14/2004 at 04:51 AM.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  8. #8  
    Bush is really very cool. You can see how he works when he makes statements like the above. I am quite sure in his manuscript somebody had written

    "Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their lore with women all across this country."

    Unfortunately, GWB's vocabulary does not contain words like "lore". You can see him pausing and thinking in the video: "Lore? What the hell is lore? Must be a typo..." So he just picked the next word that seemed to fit, love, and of course did not realize how ridiculous his statements gets with that word.

    Don't you ever get the feeling that GWB acts as if the remote control that guides him doesn't always work?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Lawyers work within a legal framework established by politicians who were elected by the people. There is no way you can call it abuse, because if it was abuse, the judges would not rule in favour of those lawyers.

    Still, the laws may be stupid, but that is not the lawyer's fault.

    LOL! Great job clulup, that's one of the best examples of circular reasoning I've seen in a long time!
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  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    LOL! Great job clulup, that's one of the best examples of circular reasoning I've seen in a long time!
    Don't see what you mean. Please explain.

    P.S.: in case this has caused confusion: "politicians" meant "members of the legislative power"
    Last edited by clulup; 09/14/2004 at 07:52 AM.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Don't see what you mean. Please explain.

    P.S.: in case this has caused confusion: "politicians" meant "members of the legislative power"

    Here's an explanation of what I mean by "circular reasoning":

    Circular reasoning is the practice of assuming something, in order to prove the very thing that you assumed. In Logic-speak, you assume that proposition A is true, and use that premise (directly or indirectly) to prove that proposition A is true. This is one of many logical fallacies that routinely get used in heated arguments, and is actually a special case of the fallacy of false assumptions.

    Popular examples of Circular Reasoning include 'The Bible must be infallible - this verse says it is the word of God!', and 'The government always obeys the law - this piece of legislation says they must!
    In your reasoning you state that "There is no way you can call it abuse, because if it was abuse, the judges would not rule in favour of those lawyers." Having said this, you obviously failed to note that judges often and frequently rule favoring certain abuses b/c they often make decisions based on their own interpretions of the law, which can often be biased. Furthermore, the fallacy of the irrefutable nature or judges if further eroded when one considers that a majority of State/County judges in the US are ELECTED officials not constrained by the checks and balances found federal system. Thus, the judges themselves are politicians who often rule in a way to maitain their own positions and power irrespective of what the law says. Thus the combination of greedy trial lawyers (who want to be future judges or politians like John Edwards), politically elected judges, and misguided legislatures influenced by special interests all significantly warp the current system. You arugement was based on the premise that malpractice insurance fraud/abuse cannot be exist b/c the system would not allow it, when the facts are opposite to that very premise...
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  12. #12  
    It results in legislating from the bench. Not the way it should be done. Recognizing something in one state has the effect of making it that way throughout the country. Not the way it should be done. Our legislature has the responsibility to make the law, the courts to say yes/no on its legality. The court taking the responsibility to make law and enforce it is something we see way tooooo much of.
  13. #13  
    And the framework that allows this is not in place because of the republican party. Look a different direction. Ben
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    In your reasoning you state that "There is no way you can call it abuse, because if it was abuse, the judges would not rule in favour of those lawyers." Having said this, you obviously failed to note that judges often and frequently rule favoring certain abuses b/c they often make decisions based on their own interpretions of the law, which can often be biased.
    Judges interpret the law. That is what they are in office for. If what you are saying is that there is insufficient separation of the executive, legislative and judiciary branch, then there is a severe political problem, not circular reasoning.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    there is a severe political problem, not circular reasoning.
    A circular political problem?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Judges interpret the law. That is what they are in office for. If what you are saying is that there is insufficient separation of the executive, legislative and judiciary branch, then there is a severe political problem, not circular reasoning.
    There you go again!
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  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    His statement addresses directly the trial lawyer who specializes in the outright abuse of our legal system. Specifically lawyers like John Edwards - he made his fortune with class action law suits that drove many OBGYN doctors out of business. The background is there for the reading. It is because of people like John Edwards that medical costs are as high as they are - insurance is sky high. It is in dire need of a controlling action. If the Kerry-Edwards team makes it to the plate, you can dang well bet the cost will continue to increase.
    Ben
    While the rhetoric thrown about in this thread it is a convenient way to spew hate about trial lawyers and to bash Edwards it unfortunately does not have any basis in fact.

    Bush is wrong about the costs of medical malpractice lawsuits. CBO and the GOA studies are in agreement: capping medical malpractice does not reduce health care costs. Simple as that.

    http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=4968&sequence=0

    http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=133
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 09/15/2004 at 10:13 PM.
  18. #18  
    Then tell me how outlandishly high settlements benefit the system? I was involved in a traffic crash back in '91, a tour bus pulled in front of my wife and I. We initially hired a lawyer, got fed up with nothing being done, wrote a letter to the lawyer firing him, forgot to send a copy to the judge and shortly after that went into arbitrition. I got $200,000 out of it and because the judge did not get a copy of the letter, the lawyer got $110,000 and I got $90,000. Yep, I did the work and he got the pay. That sucked. Only the lawyer wins. Everybody else looses.
    Ben
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Then tell me how outlandishly high settlements benefit the system? I was involved in a traffic crash back in '91, a tour bus pulled in front of my wife and I. We initially hired a lawyer, got fed up with nothing being done, wrote a letter to the lawyer firing him, forgot to send a copy to the judge and shortly after that went into arbitrition. I got $200,000 out of it and because the judge did not get a copy of the letter, the lawyer got $110,000 and I got $90,000. Yep, I did the work and he got the pay. That sucked. Only the lawyer wins. Everybody else looses.
    Ben
    Ben I am sorry that you had a bad experience with the legal system. I am not defending lawyers here.

    Capping medical malpractice doesn't have a beneficial or a detrimental effect on health care.

    Bush I am sure is aware of this too, but he wants to pretend he is doing something about health care so he can get reelected. And he is using misleading statements in the hopes that you will believe him. Its politics.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 09/16/2004 at 08:40 AM.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    It is because of people like John Edwards that medical costs are as high as they are - insurance is sky high.
    That seems like a gross oversimplification. I have a very hard time believing that healthcare costs have risen solely because of "people like John Edwards." As far as lawsuits go, I believe that the blame should be spread out between the litigators, lawyers, and legislators. As far as the actual cost of healthcare goes, I believe that most of the blame lies with the pharmaceutical and insurance companies being for-profit organizations who hold little regard for the health of our citizenry. I also suggest we hold our government responsible for accepting bribes from industry lobbyists.

    In a way, I think your statement is comparable to saying, "Diamond prices are so high because of diamond theives!"
    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040903.html

    Nareau
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