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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by nareau
    That seems like a gross oversimplification. I have a very hard time believing that healthcare costs have risen solely because of "people like John Edwards." As far as lawsuits go, I believe that the blame should be spread out between the litigators, lawyers, and legislators. As far as the actual cost of healthcare goes, I believe that most of the blame lies with the pharmaceutical and insurance companies being for-profit organizations who hold little regard for the health of our citizenry.
    In Switzerland law suits against MDs are rare, there is also much less money involved in those cases. However, the costs of healthcare steadily rises, too. I don't know how much lawsuits add to the cost of healthcare in the US, maybe it is a factor. However, I think other factors may be more important. The first is that people get older and older, and the percentage of old people is rising. The other is that no party has an interest in reducing costs in healthcare: not the MDs, not the health insurances, and also not the patients, at least not once he or she has a health problem. Then only the best is good enough.

    But maybe in the situation in Switzerland is different: Here health insurance is mandatory, and costs about 160 US$ per grown-up per month for an insurance that covers almost everything, but without "luxury" like single room in the hospital, and without dentist. How much is it in the US?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  2. #22  
    I think that in Bush's speach he is referring mostly to medical malpractice insurance. Not necessarly Health Insurance. If I see so many doctors publicly speaking out about how high their medical malpractice insurance is, I am inclined to believe them. We all know that if there were limits to how much a small medical mistake is worth to the victim, then medical malpractice insurance (in theory) would go down. Lower the rates for insurance = more doctors=more competition=lower costs all the way around. I still believe in Capitalism.

    We have the most advanced health care in the world (here in the U.S). That is something we must understandably be willing to pay $$$ for. The doctor is human too right? So mistakes will be made, and that part will never go away. Understanding that mistakes will happen means to me that the patient must assume some risk sometimes, even assume the risk that the doctor may make a mistake which could lead to something even as traumatic as death. So when a doctor fails to correctly diagnose a disease or condition, that patient should not be automatically handed a check for thousands or even in the odd cases, millions of dollars.
    Of course everything I have said here is only if the doctor made a mistake. It does not include Negligence on the doctors part. So, yes if your surgeon was drunk and cut off the wrong limb, you should be compensated with something. I dont know what is appropriate for such a thing but Im sure that something is due.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by FreePour
    I think that in Bush's speach he is referring mostly to medical malpractice insurance. .
    You are imagining what it must be like for U.S. doctors, well I am one of those U.S. doctors, I worry about malpractice and the cost of health care, and I happen to have it well researched.

    Bush is not merely saying that malpractice lawsuits can drive up insurance premeiums. He is saying medical malpractice is one of the most important factors in rising health care costs in total

    Here is an except from his recent speech on this:

    "One of the major cost drivers in the delivery of health care are these junk and frivolous lawsuits."

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0040126-3.html

    and the data with accompanying direct references to careful and recent CBO and GOA studies which proves Bush's idea to be patently false.

    http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=133

    So from a physician's standpoint, one who knows a thing or two about health care, I can tell you that we are in a health care crisis, costs are going up, there are record high numbers of uninsured families and children, and now, after four years, Bush is deciding to attack the problem by capping medical malpractice, but its been shown to have no effect on the costs of health care.

    All it does is serve as a vehicle for him to bash Edwards and promote hate against trial lawyers. My opinion of this is that Bush hopes to use this wrong information to convince you he is doing something about our health care crisis, when in fact he is not.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 09/16/2004 at 03:16 PM.
  4. #24  
    Fine, taken you are in the field. The question though, when you cannot afford to practice any more due to high malpractice insurance, who are you going to blame? Surely you will blame someone. In the for what it is worth, how much did Edwards make from his law suits against OBGYNs and in your opinion, was the suit one of merit. Were the number of OBGYNs practicing in his state reduced and did their costs increase?

    If you were one of those affected, what would you say?
    Ben
  5. #25  
    there is nothing new about the problems with malpractice insurance, talk about people having to leave certain states or certain specialties has been going on for many years.

    Sure I would like to have my malpractice insurance lowered, but I can tell you, by and large, U.S. doctors do OK, we have a very rewarding job and we get paid very well for it, thanks to our strong union, the AMA.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Here health insurance is mandatory, and costs about 160 US$ per grown-up per month for an insurance that covers almost everything, but without "luxury" like single room in the hospital, and without dentist. How much is it in the US?
    For a family of four healthy people in costs in excess of $600 per month. This insurance covers nothing but major medical problems.

    Health insurance is a major problem in the U.S. and it's only going to get worse as more and more major employers are cutting back on what used to be a standard benefit.
    "Do the Chickens have large talons?" Napoleon Dynamite
  7. #27  
    CellMatrix - The AMA - gosh what an organization for the doctor. Polices the doctor and no one polices it. Now, do you have any opinions of health care in other countries?
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    CellMatrix - The AMA - gosh what an organization for the doctor. Polices the doctor and no one polices it. Now, do you have any opinions of health care in other countries?
    Actually I am not a member of the AMA, and I disagree with many of its policies.

    As far as health care in other countries, of course I am prejudiced and I think that the US has the most technologically advanced health care in the world.

    On the other hand, I am impressed with other countries, for example those in scandinavia, and elsewhere, where everyone has access to quality health care. I think it is shameful that so many people in our country are without health care.

    Some people blame the poor, they are lazy, dont want to pay etc, and that is just plain mean spirited and wrong. I think we need to improve the system itself.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 09/18/2004 at 09:08 AM.
  9. #29  
    People without health care? Where in this country? Our public hospitals and emergency rooms provide care. And don't some doctors provide care as part of their service? And if you do not provide it as part of your service, have you thought of doing so, considering that doctors in this country are well compensated. Take it off the tax bill.

    Ben
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Actually I am not a member of the AMA, and I disagree with many of its policies.

    As far as health care in other countries, of course I am prejudiced and I think that the US has the most technologically advanced health care in the world.

    On the other hand, I am impressed with other countries, for example those in scandinavia, and elsewhere, where everyone has access to quality health care. I think it is shameful that so many people in our country are without health care.

    Some people blame the poor, they are lazy, dont want to pay etc, and that is just plain mean spirited and wrong. I think we need to improve the system itself.

    Those scandinavian countries that you speak of also have incredibly high tax rates.

    How do we blame the poor for the healthcare problems? Explain that one.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    People without health care? Where in this country? Our public hospitals and emergency rooms provide care. And don't some doctors provide care as part of their service? And if you do not provide it as part of your service, have you thought of doing so, considering that doctors in this country are well compensated. Take it off the tax bill.

    Ben
    Ben, this is sarcasm right? You are doing a modern day version of Scrooge? "Are the paupers prisons still open?"

    Because I know you must be aware that getting proper health care is not possible for many many people, including honest, hard working people who just can't afford health insurance.
    "Do the Chickens have large talons?" Napoleon Dynamite
  12. #32  
    Somewhat a bit sarcastic. However, health care is not denied in this country. We have health care programs that provide care to minors. Yep, every state has it. We have health care benefits available through public hospitals. In need or emergency surgery? It is available. Here in Hawaii health care is mandatory when a company has a specific number of employees. Here in Hawaii and Florida (where I am from), there are public hospitals that provide excellent health care (Tampa General) and university hospitals (Shands in Gainesville), et cetera, that provide a high level of health care. They both maintain clinics, et cetera. So, it may not be the best in the world, but frankly, it is not the worst in the world by any means. Want something worse? Travel east.

    What is even worse in the eys of many people is what it costs for us to provide health care to our pets. I say this trying to sound like a liberal, but I am probably flunking.

    Ben
  13. #33  
    Ahh, I understand now I think. Your talking about health CARE if your dying or very sick.

    But if my children need corrective braces for their teeth, or my daughter has a problem with her breathing, but it doesn't effect her staying alive, then I am on my own unless I have health INSURANCE for them.

    I see your point now. I think for many people, myself included, my big fear is not having health insurance to cover non-life threatning issues. but effect quality of life. Health care is available for most everyone when it comes to issues effecting whether we will die bleeding in the street. And for that I am glad I live in the U.S of A.

    "Do the Chickens have large talons?" Napoleon Dynamite
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Those scandinavian countries that you speak of also have incredibly high tax rates.

    How do we blame the poor for the healthcare problems? Explain that one.
    You know the argument, the poor are just lazy and if they can't afford health care then its their own fault. But, that argument is side-stepping the real issue. I am not trying to start some class warfare argument here. What I am saying is that we need to do something to keep down the escaliting health care costs so that everyone can afford it.

    Right now, the for profit health organizations, the drug companies and the health insurance industry are all working together to drive up the cost of health care. They have the best lobbying groups in DC and they insure that they continue to keep the status quo. Doctors are also not exempt, their union, the AMA is a powerful lobbying group with the sole purpose of protecting doctors salaries.

    Capping malpractice lawsuits is a drop in the bucket compared to all of these other things, driving up health costs. The references I provided earlier clearly point this out.

    We need to direct our attention at these true source of health care costs, my point here is that cappig malpractice lawsuits or trying to tie in health care with welfare is just sidestepping the issue here. The system which needs to change is the coddling of health care and pharmaceutical industry lobbying groups.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 09/18/2004 at 06:09 PM.
  15. #35  
    Two items here. Yep, I think of health insurance as something other than general maintenance - they are two very different items. I have no problem in footing general care bills on my own. Oh, well.

    Now as for the above, poor people being lazy, bubba, I never said or inferred that. Not at all. Nope. We are not even having a class warfare discussion (not argument) here. We all agree that health care costs need to be controlled. Part of that also includes controlling the fees that doctors collect? Insurance they have to pay? Requirements they have to meet? Why are we only hitting the pharmaceutical industry? It costs MILLIONS of dollars and YEARS to get a drug onto the market. Isn'st the pharmaceutical industry due its profits? Profits mean research getting done. Research is not cheap. Think of all those trees to be looked at. Think of all those sea things to be looked at. Think of all those studies needing to be done on why xxx has more orgasms that xxx (kidding there, but it's true). Revamp it all, just do not bring us socialized medicine. Ben

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