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  1. #101  
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  2. #102  
    [QUOTE=cellmatrix]
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    If you rip music illegally the iPod does have a crime factor effect

    I say, lets get artists to donate music, load it up on ipods and then have an ipod for illegal gun giveaway, here and in Iraq too. I don't have an illegal gun but if I did, I would trade one for an ipod in a second!

    OK, I'll shut up now......
    Maybe we should throw in some cake. Everyone likes cake.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Maybe we should throw in some cake. Everyone likes cake.
    How about some pie...ohhh and some ice cream
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    I am actually interested in this subject, believe it or not. So, when you have a chance send me a "privey" please. Thanks!
    Perhaps, will require some time to explain in writing however, so dont hold your breath.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  5. #105  
    we are talking about islamic fundamentalists and all, but what do you guys think of this, concerning a related issue.

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...sa_powell_dc_2

    Is this just damage control to soften impact of the independent report when comes out in a few weeks or is this the first sign that Powell is leaving the flock?
  6. #106  
    Am I making this up or do I remember Powell saying he won't hang around for a second term. This was over a year ago, I think.
  7. #107  
    According to Robert Novak as recently as yesterday, it was an open question as to whether Powell would stay.
    http://www.suntimes.com/output/novak...t-novak12.html

    But, maybe Powell's statements represent parting shots?

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...sa_powell_dc_2

    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...aign_powell_dc

    I don't know?
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 09/13/2004 at 05:22 PM.
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Again, all support for my claim that religion is a blight upon mankind.
    I have trouble with this. My problem is partially that I agree with this viewpoint (a viewpoint that represents a certain kind of fundamentalism, to be totally honest), but also that I find the expression of other fundamentalist viewpoints to be terribly offensive and I realize how offensive our expression of opinions might be to others. I'm sure we could have a discussion on the topic, but ...well, I'm sure we can all imagine just how out of control a arguments about religion are going to get. I mean, we're all hanging out here waiting for information about a phone and look how worked up we're able to get, for crying out loud. So my problem, by and large, is that I would like to say "Rock on, Woof! It's great to see this (largely under-represented) viewpoint expressed in public!!" ...but it seems somewhat inappropriate.

    Woof -- I hope you do write to chick-dance, but I think it's a great idea to do it privately, or, perhaps, start a new thread for the topic.
  9. #109  
    thanks snerdy, I am considering it. Have to decide if I want to open myself up for that much crap.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    Sorry to change the topic, Woof, but what's with the Israeli Uzi? Are you going to war or something?
    Related to the assualt weapon thread.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by freudov23
    most of our founding fathers were deists
    Here we go! Oh, wait -- I'm gonna make some popcorn. Let me know if I miss anything.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chick-Dance
    Are you going to war or something?
    It's in case the war comes to him!

    ...I mean that as a joke, and I hope Woof has a different reason for owning an Uzi (simple enthusiasm, perhaps?), but I know some people actually feel very strongly about owning guns so they can defend themselves.
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by snerdy
    .....It's in case the war comes to him!

    ...I mean that as a joke, and I hope Woof has a different reason for owning an Uzi (simple enthusiasm, perhaps?), but I know some people actually feel very strongly about owning guns so they can defend themselves.

    If it does I'll be ready. Actually a buddy of mine had an UZI pistol (Micro) back in the eighties. It was fun to shoot, so I got one too. Got the micro just so mine would be different and of course it was cheaper than the regular model. It's a kick in the pants, but if I was inclined to hurt someone, this would NOT be my weapon of choice. I could do better with a straw and wet paper for accuracy, let me tell you.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  13. #113  
    This thread has gotten hugh. Anyway, a few points. My statement is not incorrect about the rise of anti-semitism in Europe. It has radically increased over the last few years and will continue to do so in light of the fact that Europe's birth rate is falling in places like Italy and that Italy is having to import workers and many of those workers are from the middle east....In addition, take a few moments to search Google and you will find articles about the increase. It's there and not sugar coated. So before calling me a liar, take the time to check the facts.

    Second, the crime rate has gone down here in the US and up in Europe. The stats are there to support that statement.

    JFK liberal? Far from it. Today he would be a republican. He did not support abortion. He did not support the banning of weapons. He openly supported gun ownership. He definitely would not be the democrat of today. Carter - one if not the worst president we have ever had.

    Christian extremism - you are talking of the Old Testment, not the New. Read.

    Gun control to the extreme is why Great Britian has such a high rate. The general population is unable to protect itself against the criminal element. Private ownership of guns means the public has the ability and the responsibility to protect itself. I do not think you would want to walk into my house without an invitation.

    Chick-Dance, I bet your iPod would not provide you any protection.

    Powell's statement is that he serves at the pleasure of the president and they need to get together to discuss their pleasures.

    Freudov23 - our founding fathers were deists? Your history book must be radically different than mine. I just took a look at the history of our founding fathers - one that presents a detailed discussion of each one of them and bubba, that is not what I find written. With the exception of one, each was deeply religious. Where can I read more about this? I really do want to followup on this one.

    I read their desire to keep the two seperate, but not to deny the existance or importance of each.

    As for your Kerry-Edwards thing, have you listened to what was said today?

    You all have a great day. Ben
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    This thread has gotten hugh. Anyway, a few points. My statement is not incorrect about the rise of anti-semitism in Europe. It has radically increased over the last few years and will continue to do so in light of the fact that Europe's birth rate is falling in places like Italy and that Italy is having to import workers and many of those workers are from the middle east....In addition, take a few moments to search Google and you will find articles about the increase. It's there and not sugar coated. So before calling me a liar, take the time to check the facts.

    Second, the crime rate has gone down here in the US and up in Europe. The stats are there to support that statement.

    ...

    Christian extremism - you are talking of the Old Testment, not the New. Read.

    Gun control to the extreme is why Great Britian has such a high rate. The general population is unable to protect itself against the criminal element. Private ownership of guns means the public has the ability and the responsibility to protect itself. I do not think you would want to walk into my house without an invitation.

    ...

    You all have a great day. Ben
    I'm not trying to equate having a strong Christian faith with extremism, personally though I don't see how you can try to differentiate between the Old and New Testaments like that - surely Christians, by definition, have always had both? And yet Christian extremists have done terrible things. The question for me, as stated in my first post was whether Bush could be considered a fundamentalist/extremist or not. You may not like those labels, that's fair enough, but they aren't my labels. I also said that I don't necessarily think Bush is a fundamentalist, I meant especially when the term is used as a pejorative.
    Finding articles on google is all well and good but from the all the contact I've had with Jewish people they've never had anti-semitism as a big topic of conversation, the spread of opinion seems to be that it is rising but it's not endemic. However, maybe it's just a lot lower here in the UK. It's easy to cast these aspersions though, the perception here of the US is that general prejudice (for example racism) is a lot higher than in Europe. Care to comment on that?
    Gun control to the extreme is why Britain has such a high rate of what? Crime? I don't think I know anyone who's had their home broken into, obviously it happens but it's pretty rare. Even fewer people are aware of it happening until afterwards either, so how would having a gun help? It makes me feel a lot safer knowing that there aren't many guns around.
    If you look at the majority of gun crime in Britain it's committed either with converted air-guns or 'restored' replicas, this to me says that criminals are having a really hard time getting hold of 'real' guns. That tells me that gun-control is working, and now needs to be extended to include those models of airgun which can be converted and those makes of replica which can be 'restored'. In other words the legislation isn't strong enough yet. There are real guns around, but their price on the black market is way higher than it would be without the restrictions, so they're well beyond the 'ordinary' criminal.
    Last edited by PeterBrown; 09/14/2004 at 04:25 AM.
    Animo et Fide
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Where can I read more about this? I really do want to followup on this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    take a few moments to search Google
    I suggest "founding," "fathers," and "christians," as a start.


    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Read.
    Right back at you. Unfortunately "reading" either the old or new testaments (or any sacred texts, for that matter) doesn't seem to resolve disputes about what the text actually says. I'm not talking about between folks like myself and devout christians -- I mean it doesn't even resolve the issue for christians! Remember that whole thing with the two popes? Whee!

    Of course, history as a reading topic is kind of a toss up as well. So, truth is fickle.


    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    This thread has gotten hugh.
    This thread got Hugh?! Damn you, thread! Daaaaaammmmnnn yyyyoooooouuuuuu! ...Wait, who's Hugh?
  16. #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    In addition, take a few moments to search Google and you will find articles about the increase. It's there and not sugar coated. So before calling me a liar, take the time to check the facts.
    Why not share your sources with us? Post the link if you have one. This would allow us to learn something, or at least verify the validity of your claims. Thank you in advance.
    Second, the crime rate has gone down here in the US and up in Europe. The stats are there to support that statement. (...) Gun control to the extreme is why Great Britian has such a high rate. The general population is unable to protect itself against the criminal element. Private ownership of guns means the public has the ability and the responsibility to protect itself. I do not think you would want to walk into my house without an invitation.
    It does not mean a lot if the crime rate goes down a bit or up a bit, it matters far more how high it is. Take homicide rates:

    USA 5.5 murders per 100'000 inhabitants (Source)
    Canada 1.85 murders per 100'000 inhabitants (Source)
    Great Britain 1.4 murders per 100'000 inhabitants (see Clairegrrls source above)
    Switzerland 1.2 murders per 100'000 inhabitants (dito).

    So you find it a comforting thought that the homicide rate in the US went down a bit, while it went up a bit in other countries. I would rather ask myself why in the US it is still 4 times that of Switzerland or the UK, or 3 times that of Canada... Is it because you can protect yourself so well with your guns, while the poor Brits have no means of defending themselves when ruthless people break into their homes?
    Last edited by clulup; 09/14/2004 at 08:50 AM.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    I think clulup will disagree with you. The swiss after all are "special" people. That also doesnt explain why England without its guns has a higher rate of assault, burglery and robbery then the US. If you dont use a gun when you rob someone, what do you use? A swiss army knife?
    - baby carrots ?? or are they in fact big daddy carrots chopped up
  18.    #118  
    I am curious. what examples have there been of extremist christians doing terrible things in the current century?

    there HAVE been atrocities committed in the past, but that is the past. what is going on CURRENTLY that can be labeled as examples of extremist christians committing terrible deeds?
  19. #119  
    Quote Originally Posted by murrayalex
    - baby carrots ?? or are they in fact big daddy carrots chopped up
    Ya know...I had that same question a month ago
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    I am curious. what examples have there been of extremist christians doing terrible things in the current century?
    I think the most extreme pro-life advocates, those killing doctors and bombing clinics, could be considered "extremist christians", since most appose abortion on religious grounds
    Well behaved women rarely make history

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