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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    "Attacks against Jews in Europe have sharply increased, says a report by a European anti-racism watchdog."

    PB...this headline appeared in BBC news website as recently as 6 months ago. The study singles out Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands and Britain, where it says the rise in anti-Semitism has been of particular concern.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3586543.stm
    - crikey, you must have spent ages searching for that just to try and disprove PB's comments, which is admirable but at the same time a little disconcerting. As for Bclingers comments about Europe...well they are laughable and some might say..a little extremist ??!!
  2. #62  
    Ok, I've read the article now. There has been a sharp rise to two attacks on synagogues in Britain in 2002 and two suspected arson attacks in 2003. Is it just me or does that sound like an increase from a very low base?
    Animo et Fide
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    As for the pope, let me assure you that if the Vatiacan were struck by the killers of Islam, his attitude toward them would be 100% different.
    ?????? Don't you know that the present pope was severely wounded and almost killed by a Muslim terrorist? If that did not change his mind, what else will? You are free to assure me of whatever you want, but forgive me if I don't find it convincing.
    The USA was struck and now Russia. Russia before did not advocate a pre-emitive strike policy. Russia now says anytime and anyplace they feel there is a threat, they hold the RIGHT to strike first.
    Are you familiar with Russian policies in Chechnya? Since long, Russia has taken the right to commit just about evey atrocity in Chechnya you can think of, and also some you can probably not think of. This does of course not mean I condone the atrocities of the Chechen terrorists (just in case) but let's not pretend the Russians have nothing to do with the horrible situation in Chechnya. I have mentioned this before here.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Europe is not a happy party. The countries hate each other and cooperate only out of necessity. Tolerance there? Not at all. The recent social contributions of Europe - hatred and increased drug usage and crime, and unemployment. Yep, unemployment and to think Kerry wants us to follow the European model.
    Funny points. Counties hate each other? How about some references? How about murder rate in the US compared to other counties? I can help you out regarding Switzerland: Frequency of murder is five times lower here than in the US - does that sound like more hatred and crime than in the US?
    Last edited by clulup; 09/13/2004 at 03:41 AM.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by murrayalex
    - crikey, you must have spent ages searching for that just to try and disprove PB's comments, which is admirable but at the same time a little disconcerting. As for Bclingers comments about Europe...well they are laughable and some might say..a little extremist ??!!
    Well I didnt search for ages. My googling skills are excellent and I felt that the source should be acceptable to you lads
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    Ok, I've read the article now. There has been a sharp rise to two attacks on synagogues in Britain in 2002 and two suspected arson attacks in 2003. Is it just me or does that sound like an increase from a very low base?

    Increase is increase. If there were none before and now there is some, that = increase
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    you do not run into anti-semitism in Europe very easily
    Is what I said Claire, I didn't say it didn't exist. Four attacks in two years could be the work of one guy or gang. It's certainly not common, increase or not.
    Animo et Fide
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    Frequency of murder is five times lower here than in the US - does that sound like more hatred and crime than in the US?
    As a fact, swisserville has the second highest handgun ownership and handgun murder rate in the industrialized world. The US wins the Gold and is numero uno.

    This was based on statistics available in 1992

    http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-switzerland.htm

    Clulup, so you have or have had an assault weapon, correct? Here are some interesting comments http://www.gunowners.org/op0039.htm
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  9. #69  
    This is really what you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    ... and you do not run into anti-semitism in Europe very easily except historically. ...

    What is "historical" anti-semitism? Is that like from germany or france?
    Last edited by clairegrrl; 09/13/2004 at 09:02 AM.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    As a fact, swisserville has the second highest handgun ownership and handgun murder rate in the industrialized world. The US wins the Gold and is numero uno.
    You're crossing threads now Claire.
    Animo et Fide
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    You're crossing threads now Claire.

    No...clulup post #66. Anyway I gotta get going. The school bell is ringing
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    This is really what you said.
    What is "historical" anti-semitism? Is that like from germany or france?
    Historically anti-semitism was much more widespread, as can be seen by how easily the Nazis spread their message of hate, for example. Also the Spanish Inquisition and pogroms in Russia and further back similar shameful episodes in British history were largely anti-semitic.
    My point was that it's not widespread nowadays. It was common before the second world war but has since then been eradicated from mainstream thinking.
    Animo et Fide
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    My point was that it's not widespread nowadays. It was common before the second world war but has since then been eradicated from mainstream thinking.
    "...a painful debate about the future of Jews in France as a rising plague of anti-Semitic incidents fuels fears for their safety ..."

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0622/p01s03-woeu.html

    Maybe you just dont hear about it in the UK.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  14. #74  
    And that would show the problem as widespread how? France was recently shocked by an alleged anti-semitic attack, the fact the attack was faked doesn't detract from the shock most French people felt. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3898687.stm (- this link also highlights other problems in France).
    Now I don't deny that anti-semitism is on the rise in some parts of Europe. I'm not burying my head in the sand here, but to suggest it's something bigger is wrong. To suggest, as bclinger did, that Europe is anti-semitic is just plain wrong.
    Animo et Fide
  15. #75  
    Here's another link giving more information on anti-semitism in Europe from a wide variety of interviewees, including rabbis and politicians.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3234264.stm#
    Animo et Fide
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    Now I don't deny that anti-semitism is on the rise in some parts of Europe. I'm not burying my head in the sand here, but to suggest it's something bigger is wrong. To suggest, as bclinger did, that Europe is anti-semitic is just plain wrong.
    I wasnt agreeing with him...I think that your comments are also not quite on the mark. Perhaps the reality is somewhere between the two viewpoints. I think france is intimidated by it's large muslim population and while it pretends it's shocked about Sharon saying french Jews should go to Israel, I bet they would love to see them leave. You may not be burying your head in the sand, but I think france is. JMO
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  17. #77  
    Bottom line is:

    We have killed more people in the name of God <-------(fill in your religious higher power here) than any other murders, earthquakes, shootings, etc. put together. Whether we are the Islam Fundalmentists, Anti-Abortion Clinic bombers, Neo-Nazis hating in the name of Jesus, we are all doing in their own idea of religious radicalism. Some are more vocal then others.
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenzytom
    Bottom line is:

    We have killed more people in the name of God <-------(fill in your religious higher power here) than any other murders, earthquakes, shootings, etc. put together. Whether we are the Islam Fundalmentists, Anti-Abortion Clinic bombers, Neo-Nazis hating in the name of Jesus, we are all doing in their own idea of religious radicalism. Some are more vocal then others.
    We as in who?? Earthlings? What are you going to do when there is an alien invasion and they are killing the inhabitants of earth?
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    The democratic party has changed. From being middle of the road to the far left. Gore, Kennedy, Kerry represent the far left.
    Wha?! Oh, man! If you think they're the "far left," I have a few people you should meet. I know the political spectrum is colored by our position on it (ie, "everything further to the right of me is right-wing"), but the Democratic party is unmistakably one of the more conservative parties out there.

    At any rate, are you suggesting that Gore, Kennedy and Kerry are more liberal than Carter, JFK, and LBJ? Somehow, I don't see the same picture.

    Nareau
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Christianity and Islamic extremism are totally different. One preaches love and understanding and the other murder. Pure and simple murder.
    Can you cite any primary sources at all that back up this claim? Many Christian texts promote killing other people. Are you defining murder like Mirriam Webster does?

    At any rate, Christian extremism doesn't promote "love and understanding." Heck, not even most of the bible promotes those things. Jesus promoted them. Christian Extremism is all about the hatred and violence.

    Nareau

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