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  1. #21  
    Treobk, that was MY resume, why getting so worked up!

    And why did you think I would be a big fan of Clinton? I never said he was the best president?
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    I wouldnt waste too much time with this guy bk,
    Well you already did going by the number of posts on this thread!!!
  3. mrjoec's Avatar
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    #23  
    Woof, you're at it again. When you don't get personal, you often have a lot to add to the discussion. When you let your emotions fly, though, you do get a bit out of hand.

    Let's all try to stick to the matters on the table, shall we?

    To get back to the thread topic, and this is in no way a cut to you, Woof, because, like you said, you just presented it "as is" but this cost of Kerry thing is pretty much the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard. Precisely the kind of thing you'd get in an email instead of from an actual conservative source, let alone a mainstream media source.

    The secret service costs money. Do you want to deny our elected officials their security? I'm sure securing Bush's ranch is costing us a bundle, and will continue to do so, but you know what? It's absolutely necessary. Do I want Bush's entire family to enjoy that protection for the rest of their lives, regardless of how long they live and how much that costs? You'd better believe it. How sad would it be if some common thug murdered Jimmy Carter, or if Clinton died of a heart attack at 58 because he no longer had access to the top medical teams he's enjoyed since he left office? What would it say about us as a country if we didn't honor those who served the public in office?

    If we wanted to use this line of thinking, the best choice for president would be a single male in his late seventies with a perfect health history, no family, and a small apartment in a rural town in New Mexico. That way, after his four to eight years in office, he'd die soonafter and leave no one behind to protect. Very cost efficient.
    mrjoec
    www.joecieplinski.com
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by mrjoec
    Very cost efficient.
    Hey, are you running for office? Because I'd vote for your plan. ...Er, I mean, I'd vote for you so you could vote for your plan. Represent me! Someone, anyone!!
  5. #25  
    I could be wrong, but the general feeling I get from speaking with people up here in Canada is that Bush isn't the right person to lead the USA. Honestly, I have yet to speak to a person in the last year that thinks Bush should be re-elected. I don't understand why the American people are blind to that. Do you honestly think he is the best candidate? He isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, that's for sure. Listening to him debate is funny, I don't even think he understands half the questions. He can read a prepared speech, but when he is put on the spot his ignorance is obvious.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by kazinvan
    I could be wrong, but the general feeling I get from speaking with people up here in Canada is that Bush isn't the right person to lead the USA. Honestly, I have yet to speak to a person in the last year that thinks Bush should be re-elected. I don't understand why the American people are blind to that. Do you honestly think he is the best candidate? He isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, that's for sure. Listening to him debate is funny, I don't even think he understands half the questions. He can read a prepared speech, but when he is put on the spot his ignorance is obvious.

    See minivan...that's the beauty of the whole thing. You really don't hafta worry about it. You don't get a vote. BTW, only half the US is blind cause only about half will vote for Bush.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by kazinvan
    I could be wrong, but the general feeling I get from speaking with people up here in Canada is that Bush isn't the right person to lead the USA.
    The day we start looking to Canada for ANY type of leadership advice will be a sad, sad day in U.S. history....
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    See minivan
    Oopsie.


    Quote Originally Posted by 03Range
    The day we start looking to Canada for ANY type of leadership advice will be a sad, sad day in U.S. history....
    Hey, they have a long history of fighting terrorists. ...You didn't know that, did you.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by snerdy
    Hey, they have a long history of fighting terrorists. ...You didn't know that, did you.
    Yeah just like the Swiss...
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by 03Range
    The day we start looking to Canada for ANY type of leadership advice will be a sad, sad day in U.S. history....
    Funny, the EIU (http://www.eiu.com/) and Mercer Human Resource Consulting produce annual surveys that rank various cities around the world in many different categories. Overall (quality of life), in the last survey, Canada did quite well:

    overall quality of life survey has revealed that Zurich remains the world’s top city, providing the best quality of life, with 106.5 points. Geneva (previously scoring 105.5) moves up from fourth to second place to join Vancouver and Vienna, with a rating of 106. This takes account of the easing of entry restrictions and the growing pre-eminence of Geneva’s medical facilities, including modern and well-equipped hospitals and clinics that are amongst the best in Europe.

    Cities in Europe, Australia, and New Zealand continue to rank highest in the table. Copenhagen, Frankfurt, and Bern share joint fifth place with Sydney and Auckland, and score 105 points.

    The analysis was based on an evaluation of 39 quality of life criteria for each city including political, social, economic, and environmental factors; personal safety and health; education; transport; and other public services.

    Canada continues to score well with four cities in the top 25. Vancouver is ranked in 2nd position (106), followed by Toronto ranked 12th (104), Ottawa at 20th place (103), and Montreal in 23rd position (102.5).

    The USA has ZERO cities in the top 25.

    In the US, Honolulu, Houston, and San Francisco all take 40th place

    Maybe you *should* take some leadership advice from Canadians. Canada is a better place to live.

    Mike
  11. mrjoec's Avatar
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    #31  
    Kazinvan:

    I've been to Vancouver and Ottawa, and I honestly loved both places. Incredibly cool people, very clean environment, good food, etc. Canadians are good people, as far as I'm concerned.

    I choose to live in the U.S., for many reasons. But that doesn't mean that I don't welcome your opinion here.

    Unfortunately, many people in this forum believe that anyone who doesn't live here shouldn't and can't have anything important to say about our political system or the people running it. They think, as George Bush does, that the opinions of the outside world mean nothing, because we have this kick a$$ army and the keys to more nukes than anyone else, and therefore can tell anyone we want to shove it.

    Kinda like the Romans and the Greeks just before their empires fell. Or the French in the era of Napolean.

    It's an incredibly ignorant and shortsighted view of the world, and I'm happy to say that many of us don't share it. But you will find that a good number of us do, and thus, Bush still has a good chance of being re-elected. (Not that all Bush-supporters think this way. Many of them agree with Bush on other matters, and don't like his international policies. Many also just like big tax cuts and tend to overlook everything else. Still others hold religious convictions that lead them to believe that Bush is the better man. Some feel they have to be loyal to their party, even if they don't like the party's choice of candidate, etc.)

    I guess there are a lot of reasons why people support Bush. Just as there are many reasons why around half of us don't. We'll have to wait until November to see what happens.

    On a recent trip to Germany, I spoke with two young Berliners about their views on politics, including what was happening in their own city and country, as well as what was going on here and in the middle east. I could tell they were hesitant with me, because they were afraid I was like the so many Americans who don't care what the rest of the world thinks. It took me a while to assure them that they were free to be honest.

    I agree with you that every non-American I've ever talked to doesn't like Bush, and many of them did like Clinton. I find that fascinating, but completely not surprising.
    mrjoec
    www.joecieplinski.com
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by kazinvan
    The USA has ZERO cities in the top 25.
    Wow. Houston?!?! I like it here, but we are not known for being a paradise!
  13. #33  
    Joec, I find the same thing when I talk with colleagues from other countries, my dealings are mostly with europe and asia. Right now, they are giving us the benefit of the doubt that we did not know what Bush was like when he got into office the first time. Many people in europe or asia would be much more hard pressed to have a sympathetic view of Americans if we were to re-elect Bush, knowing of his foreign policy record. I guess if you do not deal with people from other countries, you have the luxury of being able to ignore what the world thinks. Unfortunately not all of us can do that.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 09/09/2004 at 06:56 PM.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by 03Range
    Yeah just like the Swiss...
    I ...I can't tell if you're kidding or not. It would be a shame for someone who wants their concerns about terrorism to be taken seriously to be joking about the same problems faced by other groups of people around the world.

    In Canada, high school students learn about the Front de Libération du Québec. People in Canada are very familiar with terrorist cells, how terrorist groups function, some of the motivations might drive people to terrorism and why terrorist groups are so difficult for law enforcement organizations to deal with. (Well, they're familiar with these things if they were paying attention in high school, anyway.)

    French speaking groups in Canada were never exactly happy about the formation of the federation and they have been agitating for separation to one degree or another for the entire history of the country.

    Now, let's try again: Canadians have a long history of fighting terrorism.
  15. #35  
    What's wrong with this picture is it doesn't offer comparative math for how much it's costing to keep Bush. But why let facts bother you?
  16. #36  
    mrjoec,

    Very interesting comments, and nice to be able to speak openly with someone who doesn't just say "we are the best, go take a hike". While I'll be the first to agree that not everyone in the USA is bad or ignorant, there are enough that I have interacted with that don't give me a good overall impression.

    There are enough people in the US who do want change, and I hope that with time they can make their voices heard. People like Michael Moore are trying to open the eyes of not just Americans but all people. While I don't always agree with him and some of his stunts are a bit much, it's good to see someone stick their neck out to try to make a difference. There are others like him, and not just in the USA. Take David Suzuki for example (not sure how many Americans even know who he is?).

    It's funny that you mention the Romans and Greeks. Not long ago I had a discussion where those very empires were compared with the current mentality in the USA. I can't remember the exact quote, but something to the effect of "bread and games". That is all you need to keep control over the people. Today, bread and games has become cheap fast food and wars on TV. But the effect on the people is the same.

    There is a problem in the US, many people don't see it but those that do see things getting worse and worse. The current US empire (and that is exactly what it is) is becoming a problem. No one will say that Bush is the next Hitler, Stalin, etc. Howerver, the USA is essentially trying to dominate the world. Not necessarily with war, as there is really no one that poses a serious threat if they decided to use the full arsenal at their disposal. The new domination is different. They dominate the money, oil, goods, markets, etc. US companies are expanding everywhere, all countries that the US "helps" (usually via war, like Kuwait) become another big market for US companies that are now more powerful than most countries.

    Do any of the republican supporters not care that their president can't think for himself and can't answer tough questions without sounding like an *****? If so many non-Americans think this way, I can't imagine what other world leaders think of him.

    There is so much that can be discussed here that it would be impossible to post in a thread like this. All I can say is that the world's attitude towards the USA is not getting any better, and in fact much worse, as time goes on.

    Mike
  17. #37  
    Well, to the extent that secret service are required for all ex-presidents, it's always going to be cheaper to reelect someone, right? This doesn't even raise to the level of "argument." It's silly.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbrashear
    What's wrong with this picture is it doesn't offer comparative math
    OK...let's compare. You joined Nov '02 and have made 75 posts. Snerdy joined Dec '02 and had made 485 posts.

    I would say that you need to get a six pack and sit down at your computer and catch up
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Wow. Houston?!?! I like it here, but we are not known for being a paradise!
    No, but it sounds like it has it's sh*t together in those areas that are analyzed during the study. Maybe no paradise, but a good place to live. Never been there, but always wanted to visit Texas
  20. procure's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by kazinvan
    I could be wrong, but the general feeling I get from speaking with people up here in Canada is that Bush isn't the right person to lead the USA.
    I can't remember - how many electoral votes does Canada have?
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