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  1. TxDot's Avatar
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    #41  
    From a Washington Post article (many other news outlets are reporting the same information);
    <snip>
    Yesterday, another retired Air National Guard officer came forward to attack the network's credibility. Retired Maj. Gen. Bobby W. Hodges, who was cited by a senior CBS official on Thursday as the network's "trump card" in verifying the documents, said in an interview that he was "misled" by CBS and believes the documents to be forgeries.

    Hodges said that he was read only excerpts of the documents and never saw the documents. A CBS spokeswoman said the network stands by its report.
    </snip>

    I'm just amazed at how the left thought it was horrible that the Swiftboat Vets voiced their opinion about Kerry because "had no proof" even though they were there and observed many thing firsthand. Well from what I've read the Swiftboat Vets have more proof than CBS did for this story and yet the left isn't demanding that CBS stop running the story.
  2. #42  
    You can bet though that if this were an attack against Kerry that they would be screaming at the top of their lungs that it had to stop. Strictly one sided as far as the networks are concerned. Ben
  3. Talldog's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    I just know that there are experts who do defend CBS's claim, and if CBS thought it was bogus, I do not think that they would risk their entire reputation on this one thing.
    Here are CBS' "experts". One is Marcel Matley, who is a handwriting expert, not a document expert. He claims that Killian's signature on one of the documents is genuine. Problem is, CBS has already admitted that their docs are not originals, and Matley was the author of a Sept. 27, 2002 article in "The Practical Litigator" stating that it is impossible to determine the authenticity of a signature from a photocopy. The other so-called expert is Robert Strong, who was a Guard officer and knew Killian. His "endorsement" boils down to a statement that: "They are compatible with the way business was done at that time. They are compatible with the man I remember Jerry Killian being. I don't see anything in the documents that's discordant with what were the times, the situation or the people involved." Now there's proof! At this point, it appears that Strong is backing away from CBS.

    There were 2 other people who were also cited by CBS in their defense. One was their "trump card", General Bobby Hodges, who now says he was misled by CBS, was never shown the documents, and never testified to their authenticity. The other was Dr. Phillip Bouffard, a document expert they quoted from the Boston Globe. Dr. Bouffard claims that the Globe misquoted and selectively quoted him, and that he did not verifty these documents.

    Then there's Ben Barnes, the man who supposedly told Dan Rather that he pulled strings as Texas Lt. Governor to get Bush into the Guard. Problem is, Barnes didn't become Lt. Governor until a year after Bush was sworn in. In addition, he is a Kerry campaign "super bundler" who has raised over a half million dollars for Kerry. His own daughter has been on radio and TV claiming that her father is lying because he wants to get Kerry elected.
    Last edited by Talldog; 09/13/2004 at 08:43 AM.
    Talldog
  4. TxDot's Avatar
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    #44  
    For the real scoop on Ben Barnes you have to talk to the people here in Texas that really know the man from personal experience.

    I guess you could also listen to his daughter who is pretty clear about her father being "the ultimate politician". She also points out that he is trying to sell a book. Sounds to me like good ole Ben has an ulterior motive.
  5. #45  
    So, my mind isn't made up on this issue yet. But I do have one lingering question: If they're fake, why hasn't the White House said something? Do they not know? Are they wanting to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest? Is this some kind of political maneuver?

    Nareau
  6. Talldog's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by nareau
    So, my mind isn't made up on this issue yet. But I do have one lingering question: If they're fake, why hasn't the White House said something? Do they not know? Are they wanting to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest? Is this some kind of political maneuver?
    I suspect that they know these docs are fake and are waiting for CBS to implode, possibly damaging the Kerry campaign at the same time, since they were probably the ones who fed the docs to CBS.
    Talldog
  7. TxDot's Avatar
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by nareau
    So, my mind isn't made up on this issue yet. But I do have one lingering question: If they're fake, why hasn't the White House said something? Do they not know? Are they wanting to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest? Is this some kind of political maneuver?

    Nareau
    The political maneuver is on the part of CBS if you ask me. The documents in question did not come from the Whitehouse. Other documents from the same time frame that also contained superscript came from the Whitehouse. I checked the CBS web site but couldn't figure out where they got the memos. I believe I heard or read somewhere that they came from Killians private records. Does anyone else know for sure?
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by TxDot
    I believe I heard or read somewhere that they came from Killians private records. Does anyone else know for sure?
    I thought his son said his father didnt keep private records.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  9. Talldog's Avatar
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    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by TxDot
    I checked the CBS web site but couldn't figure out where they got the memos. I believe I heard or read somewhere that they came from Killians private records. Does anyone else know for sure?
    CBS claims that the docs came from Killian's private records, but they refuse to get more specific. Killian's wife and son say he had no private records.
    Talldog
  10. TxDot's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    I thought his son said his father didnt keep private records.
    I believe you're correct about that which is part of what calls all this into question.
  11.    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by TxDot
    Well from what I've read the Swiftboat Vets have more proof than CBS did for this story and yet the left isn't demanding that CBS stop running the story.
    Maybe you should expand your reading beyond right wing editorials, and check out some reputable non-partisan sources. If you did, you would see that there is a lot of proof against what the Swiftboat Vets for "Truth" say

    http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docid=231

    http://www.factcheck.org/MiscReports.aspx?docid=235

    http://www.factcheck.org/MiscReports.aspx?docid=240

    http://www.factcheck.org/MiscReports.aspx?docid=243

    http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docid=244

    http://www.factcheck.org/MiscReports.aspx?docid=245
  12.    #52  
    "I am angry that so many sons of the powerful and well-placed managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units," wrote Powell, a 35-year career soldier and four-star general who was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...aign_powell_dc

    I couldn't agree more.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 09/13/2004 at 10:20 AM.
  13. Talldog's Avatar
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    "I am angry that so many sons of the powerful and well-placed managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units," wrote Powell, a 35-year career soldier and four-star general who was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
    On the other hand, ordinary folks like Bill Clinton could get out of serving altogether.
    Talldog
  14.    #54  
    Yes and lets not forget **** Cheney and Donny Rumsfeld our current warmongers. They also did a nice job avoiding any combat or military service too. I guess they must think that wars are a good thing, as long as you don't have to fight them yourself.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Talldog
    On the other hand, ordinary folks like Bill Clinton could get out of serving altogether.
    Clinton's Military record:

    Bill Clinton registers for the draft on September 08, 1964, accepting all contractual conditions of registering for the draft.

    Given Selective Service Number 3 26 46 228.

    Bill Clinton classified 2-S on November 17, 1964.

    * Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on March 20, 1968.

    * Bill Clinton ordered to report for induction on July 28,1969.

    * Bill Clinton dishonors order to report and is not inducted into the military.

    * Bill Clinton reclassified 1-D after enlisting in the United States Army Reserves on August 07,1969 under authority of Col.E.Holmes. and takes oath of enlistment.

    * Bill Clinton fails to report to his duty station at the University of Arkansas ROTC, September 1969.

    * Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on October 30, 1969, as enlistment with Army Reserves is revoked by Colonel E. Holmes and Clinton now AWOL and subject to arrest under Public Law 90-40 (2)(a) 'registrant who has failed to report...remain liable for induction'.

    * Bill Clinton's birth date lottery number is 311, drawn December 1, 1969, but anyone who has already been ordered to report for induction, is INELIGIBLE!

    * Bill Clinton runs for Congress (1974), while a fugitive from justice under Public Law 90-40.

    * Bill Clinton runs for Arkansas Attorney General (1976),while a fugitive from justice.

    * Bill Clinton receives pardon on January 21, 1977 from Carter.

    * Bill Clinton FIRST PARDONED FEDERAL FELON ever to serve as President.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  16.    #56  
    OK, clairregrrl, lets all be sure not to vote for Clinton in this election.
  17. Talldog's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Yes and lets not forget **** Cheney and Donny Rumsfeld our current warmongers. They also did a nice job avoiding any combat or military service too. I guess they must think that wars are a good thing, as long as you don't have to fight them yourself.
    Uhh...Rumsfeld was in the Navy from 1954-57.
    Talldog
  18. TxDot's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    "I am angry that so many sons of the powerful and well-placed managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units," wrote Powell, a 35-year career soldier and four-star general who was chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...aign_powell_dc

    I couldn't agree more.
    I agree with Powell as well.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Yes and lets not forget **** Cheney and Donny Rumsfeld our current warmongers. They also did a nice job avoiding any combat or military service too. I guess they must think that wars are a good thing, as long as you don't have to fight them yourself.

    I think the info on Clinton is appropriate. See cause nobody cares. Kerry started this whole thing and is whining cause there are some inaccuracies in what he has been saying for years. If he didnt make it the centerpiece of his entire campaign...nobody would have cared. But he did, and now they do.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  20. TxDot's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Maybe you should expand your reading beyond right wing editorials, and check out some reputable non-partisan sources. If you did, you would see that there is a lot of proof against what the Swiftboat Vets for "Truth" say

    http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docid=231

    http://www.factcheck.org/MiscReports.aspx?docid=235

    http://www.factcheck.org/MiscReports.aspx?docid=240

    http://www.factcheck.org/MiscReports.aspx?docid=243

    http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docid=244

    http://www.factcheck.org/MiscReports.aspx?docid=245
    I compared their proof to CBS' proof.
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