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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by kazinvan
    cellmatrix, I agree with many of your comments. I think you should be allowed to post your opinion without others jumping in and saying "more of the same crap", etc.

    Woof, you posted a thread about Kerry and were pissed for getting flamed over that. Yet when cellmatrix posted a thead you came in and did the exact same thing. I guess if it happens to you then you should do it to others? It makes you no better than those that flamed you.

    As cellmatrix said, a civil discussion is always good, but stupid comments and personal attacks don't add anything to a debate and just show ignorance.

    "more of the same crap" was my opinion. You dont have to like it or agree with it. And I am damned tired of being called ignorant by people who disagree with me. Do you get a feeling of superiority when you call others ignorant?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by kazinvan
    cellmatrix, I agree with many of your comments. I think you should be allowed to post your opinion without others jumping in and saying "more of the same crap", etc.
    yes, but Woof does that to everyone, so I long ago stopped taking it personally. In between his harsh rhetoric, he can say some pretty intelligent well thought out things, though his views are almost always the opposite of mine.

    I expect now he will now try to make me look incredibly condescending for my attempt at a complement here.

    But that is just Woof
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 09/10/2004 at 05:20 PM.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    yes, but Woof does that to everyone, so I long ago stopped taking it personally. In between his harsh rhetoric, he can say some pretty intelligent well thought out things, though his views are almost always the opposite of mine.

    I expect now he will now try to make me look incredibly condescending for my attempt at a complement here.

    But that is just Woof
    Actually cell I wasnt even inclined to do so. Thanks for the compliment. And although as you indicated we are usually diametrically opposed in our opinions, yours are usually well thought and intelligent as well. I am sorry if you ever took anything I said personally. Regardless of how it may look at times, I am not personally attacking anyone, including you. If there is any attacking it is of a person's viewpoint, nothing more. That happens alot when people disagree. I am disappointed in those who cant see the difference. I have several friends that are left leaning and we get along just fine, because we know it is our opinions on politics that we are arguing about not each other.

    Again thanks for the kind words. Right back at you.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  4. #24  
    OK...now that we have all that handled...Let's get back to the vicious attacks
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Again thanks for the kind words. Right back at you.
    I appreciate that man, thanks.
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    OK...now that we have all that handled...Let's get back to the vicious attacks
    clairegrrl, you little instigator you, I responded to what you had to say and then some, and it is Friday night, I am out of here. I'll look forward to seeing you around soon.
  7.    #27  
    CBS and Dan Rather are staking their reputation on the memos, I mean really sticking their neck on the line, if they are proven wrong, CBS will never live it down. Ya know, I think they are serious about these memos.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in641481.shtml
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    More of the same old crap. Don't you get tired of this constant candidate bashing? Like it's really doing anything but wasting time.
    Pot, meet kettle.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurokitty
    Pot, meet kettle.
    Oh get over it. We're long past the start of this thread and the petty jabs.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Oh get over it. We're long past the start of this thread and the petty jabs.
    Your self-ownage is entertaining!
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurokitty
    Your self-ownage is entertaining!


    How about adding something to the discussion instead of just attacking people.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    yes, you bring up a good point clairegrrl. Its not right to think, well they volunteered, so we can have them do anything. No, we have an obligation to look out for the well being of our troops. I know you feel that way too.
    This is an interesting perspective. We need to watch out for the well being of our troops and we cannot have them do anything, because they volunteered.

    Who here isnt familiar with the concept of the military and it's function. Millitary is for fighting to protect our borders, interests, allies or whatever the government feels is appropriate at the time. Anyone who volunteers for military service and doesnt think that they may be sent to do battle of somekind is just plain stupid. That's like joining the fire department and not expecting to be near a fire at some point.

    As far as looking out for our troops well being, how is that not being done. Are you suggesting that it wasn't because some of them have been killed? Are we only supposed to send troops to action when there is no chance of them getting killed? Have the troops in Iraq been placed in a situation were they are certain to be killed ths there well being has been overlooked?

    Now if our troops were dying as soon as they arrived and we just keep sending more and more and they were having to climb over the bodies of the fallen just to get to battle, you could have something. That however is not happening. Fact of the matter is we have lost very few considering the amount of time we have been incountry. Much less than the Viet Nam conflict.

    If you are unhappy with our leaders decisions to use the troops in this fashion, run for office and change how the military is used. Get laws passed that say we can only use our military in conflicts were no one can get hurt.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  13.    #33  
    Woof, I appreciate your viewpoint, but in some parts of your last post I think you have me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    This is an interesting perspective. We need to watch out for the well being of our troops
    yes that is what I said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    and we cannot have them do anything, because they volunteered.
    no I did not say that

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Who here isnt familiar with the concept of the military and it's function. Millitary is for fighting to protect our borders, interests, allies or whatever the government feels is appropriate at the time. Anyone who volunteers for military service and doesnt think that they may be sent to do battle of somekind is just plain stupid. That's like joining the fire department and not expecting to be near a fire at some point.
    couldn't agree more

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    As far as looking out for our troops well being, how is that not being done.
    I guess well-being to me means that we look after our troops and don't send them off and get them killed without good reason, and if we send them off, it is with the best possible well thought out plans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Are you suggesting that it wasn't because some of them have been killed? Are we only supposed to send troops to action when there is no chance of them getting killed?
    No, sorry if you got that impression, that is not what I meant in the slightest. Our armed forces are there to protect the interests of the United States, and risking their lives and getting killed is part of the job. What I was trying to say was that I hate it when the troops are sacrificed for a misguided purpose that is not what I feel to be in our country's interests. Roosevelt sending troops to go after Japan and Germany in WWII, was heroic, and the way in which that war was conducted with our Allies was brilliant. In contrast, I feel that Bush sending troops to Iraq after 9/11 was misguided in its conception, and flawed in its implementation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Have the troops in Iraq been placed in a situation were they are certain to be killed ths there well being has been overlooked?
    Now if our troops were dying as soon as they arrived and we just keep sending more and more and they were having to climb over the bodies of the fallen just to get to battle, you could have something. That however is not happening. Fact of the matter is we have lost very few considering the amount of time we have been incountry. Much less than the Viet Nam conflict.
    To me, even one person dying for a misguided cause is one too many.

    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    If you are unhappy with our leaders decisions to use the troops in this fashion, run for office and change how the military is used. Get laws passed that say we can only use our military in conflicts were no one can get hurt.
    Sometimes we need to fight wars and people need to die for important causes that threaten our country or its people. To me, Iraq was not an important cause that threatened Americans or our country.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 09/11/2004 at 05:06 PM.
  14. #34  
    thanks for breaking it down. Ity sure would be nice if the mobile version did quotes so I would have known what the hell you were referring to. Man that is annoying.

    I agree with most of what you said really. It's just that everyone isnt always going to agree with what our leadership does. I know I don't, but thats how it works.

    Since you werent around in WWII (persumably) all you have is history to go on and so you really cant say that there wasnt anti-WWII sentiment, like there is now for Iraq. Plus our country was vastly different then. We didnt have te "let's care about the worldfirst" attitude that many have today. It's really not a fair comparison.

    That we can disagree is the beauty of America I guess.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  15. #35  
    "Unfortunately for CBS, Dan Rather's hairdresser sucks up so much of the budget that there was nothing left for any fact-checking"...

    Read it all http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn...t-steyn12.html
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    "Unfortunately for CBS, Dan Rather's hairdresser sucks up so much of the budget that there was nothing left for any fact-checking"...

    Read it all http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn...t-steyn12.html

    I read the editorial opinion article, thanks for contributing it. Even though it is 95% political gossip and spin, and does not provide any new data or new arguments, it is entertaining.
  17. #37  
    Ah, but it does. First, nothing new is out a bout the president's military service anywhere. It points out that the major media ignored Swiftboat for months. It points out that when something negative comes out about the president that it hits the air immediately. It points out that nothing negative ever hits the air about Kerry - and my friend, there are soooo many negative things about him that have never the air (are you aware that he is an admitted war criminal? He was never prosecuted for his war crimes? that he gave aid and comfort to the enemy? has the press ever said anything about his double-tongue - support this and support that - supports opposing ends? Never ever has the major press said anything about about Kerry.) It goes to show that the major press fully supports the "liberal" element - the element that frankly does not represent the majority of this country, whether republican or democrat. CBS has one program - dump Bush and had they done any real checking into the story, even they would not have touched it - toooooo many if's and not enough facts. It does not meet the criteria needed for credible reporting.

    In addition, when the family says one thing and I am sure his wife and son would know (he did not type, did not have access to..., did not keep private records...), would that be reason to suspect?

    I grew up in the 50s and learned to type on an Underwood manual typewriter. When the electric ones hit the market, I used them and when the IBM selelctrics hit the market (the one with the ball), I used them, when the firsts word processors hit the market, I used them. The papers were typed with a modern day word processor. In the old days we had to use correction tape to correct an error and a close examination easily showed its presence. These papers do not show that. I typed at a rate that exceeded 125 words per minute and had my share of errors. There are none on these papers. So, conclude yourself. In addition, why would he write something publically and then something so totally different privately. It just does not make sense.
    Ben
  18.    #38  
    Ben, I used an IBM selectric too, and experts say it can produce the proportional fonts that are in the memos, and they were available back then too. About correction tape, sure if you are churning away at 125 wpm you will make a lot of mistakes, but if you are typing at a slower rate, then you don't make mistakes, hey I typed this whole response so far and did not make a mistake yet! hooray. But think about it, if you were writing a short memo, and made a mistake, it would at least be a reasonable option to just pull out another piece of paper rather than pull out the correction paper, it would only take you a few moments longer and you would have a better looking document anyway. Also, I think it is fair to say we type differently today than we did with typewriters, we don't care as much about making a spelling error, because we can spell check. Back then, accuracy was much more important and practiced to a higher level.

    I don't know the whole story, for sure. But I am not one to believe in some sort of liberal press conspiracy where the media is in cahoots with the Democrats. I think that CBS's main interests are in protecting its credibility as a news source. They would go down the tubes if that was damaged.

    So for them to risk putting this out, and for them to defend it like they have, it makes me think seriously about the legitamacy of the memos.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 09/12/2004 at 01:41 PM.
  19. #39  
    Then why has CBS been consistent about ignoring stories about Kerry? None of the stories brought up that are derogatory to him have been reported in detail by CBS. As for the IBM Selectric, I used them back in the early 70s and never, ever saw one that automagically did the "th" thing. What I had to do to raise it was to manually up the line half way, type the "th" and then lower it back down and to make it proportional, never. The ball was there but it was far from a clean document. Radio Shack came out with their Tandy TRS80 series and had a PS daisy wheel for a couple of their printers and a word processing program that supported justification and true proportional spacing. The documents it produced were perfectly done. The selectric typewriters did not produce true right justification with PS printing where eveything lined up properly with no big spaces. That did not happen with that particular series. In addition, the IBM Selectric did not have built-in memory - it did not justify. Oh, well. Ben
  20.    #40  
    I remember how I used to do it, left a space where I wanted the superscript to go, then after I finished typing, I would just pull the paper out a little bit, then go back and type the superscript. I mean superscript was not born with Microsoft word, was it? Bottom line is, I am not an expert on typing for sure and I am not qualified to comment. I just know that there are experts who do defend CBS's claim, and if CBS thought it was bogus, I do not think that they would risk their entire reputation on this one thing.
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