Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22
  1.    #1  
    *Excerpts from an email I received* (I hope this clarifies things...)

    Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war. They complain about his prosecution of it. One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S. history. Let's clear up one point: President Bush didn't start the war on terror. Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11.

    Let's look at the worst president and mismanagement claims:
    FDR led us into World War II.
    Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
    From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost,
    an average of 112,500 per year.
    Truman finished that war and started one in Korea.
    North Korea never attacked us.
    From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost,
    an average of 18,333 per year.
    John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
    Vietnam never attacked us.
    Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
    From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost,
    an average of 5,800 per year.
    Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent.
    Bosnia never attacked us.
    He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and
    did nothing.
    Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
    Over 2,900 lives lost on 9/11.
    In the two years since terrorists attacked us,
    President Bush has liberated two countries,
    crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida,
    put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot,
    captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
    We lost 1100 soldiers, an average of 550 a year.
    Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home.
    Worst president in history? Come on!
    The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...
    It took less time to take Iraq
    than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound.
    That was a 51 day operation.
    We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time
    than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
    It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy
    the Medina Republican Guard
    than it took Teddy Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at
    Chappaquiddick.
    It took less time to take Iraq
    than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!
    Our military is GREAT!
    Last edited by 03Range; 09/09/2004 at 05:03 PM.
  2. #2  
    Amen. Well worded, well researched. I'll take W. over any Democratic candidate alive or dead.
  3. #3  
    And try to remember, Iraq was not involved with 9/11, and Bush had plans to attack Iraq before he was even inaugurated, and long before 9/11.

    Also, as far "taking" Iraq, I hardly think we've done that yet. Yes, we got rid of Saddam, but there's a whole lot more to it than that. Bush announced that "major combat operations in Iraq have ended" on May 1, 2003. It has been more than a year since then and Americans are still dying at the same rate they were then. 137 had died before "combat operations ended." Over 800 have died since.

    And we still haven't "taken Iraq."

    I'm not at all saying Bush is the worst president ever. But he certainly is the worst in my (admittedly short, as I'm 25) memory. I haven't done enough research to compare him to anyone else.
    Units - Unit conversion for webOS!
    Treo 180->270->600->650->Blackberry Pearl->Palm Pre
  4. #4  
    For crying out loud: Can we have ONE thread for all the political cacophonies involving Bush and Kerry?
    You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing.
    -Michael Pritchard
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Oops
    For crying out loud: Can we have ONE thread for all the political cacophonies involving Bush and Kerry?
    Or an Off Topic -> Politics group?
    Units - Unit conversion for webOS!
    Treo 180->270->600->650->Blackberry Pearl->Palm Pre
  6. #6  
    Or two Off Topic politics groups:

    Off Topic -> Bash Bush
    Off Topic -> Bash Kerry
    Palm V-->Visor Deluxe-->Visor Prism-->Visorphone-->Treo 180-->Treo 600-->Treo 650 on Sprint-->Treo 700p-->Centro-->Diamond-->Pre-->HTC EVO 4g???!
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by metsfan
    Or an Off Topic -> Politics group?
    Great idea! And I'd even split that into two: Republicans and Democrats; separated but equal
    (Administrators: Please!)
    You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing.
    -Michael Pritchard
  8. vw2002's Avatar
    Posts
    904 Posts
    Global Posts
    939 Global Posts
    #8  
    thankyou 03range! very nice post!
  9. #9  
    Six months old? "Let's look at the worst president and mismanagement claims"
    dissected: http://www.buzzflash.com/perspective...president.html.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by barrmars
    Six months old? "Let's look at the worst president and mismanagement claims"
    dissected: http://www.buzzflash.com/perspective...president.html.
    Thanks for the link and different take on that perspective. As no source was quoted, I thought that was all 03Range's research.
  11. #11  
    Text from the link that barrmars provided, worth including so that the balance to the original post is in this thread.

    From Richard Harden: "That is not perspective, it is distortion. Unfortunately, cold truth doesn't travel as well as entertaining fiction but if this response could travel back up the e-mail chain to the author of the original misinformation, we might all be spared further nonsense.

    Letter: "We didn't start the war on terror. Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11."

    Richard Harden: "Indeed it was and not a one of the perpetrators of any of those acts of terrorism against us was an Iraqi or a member of the Taliban.

    I will not address the 'casualty count' as a measure of the success or failure of Presidents except to say that if that were the only criteria, then Coolidge might be our best and Lincoln our worst.

    On to the history!

    Letter: "Germany never attacked us: Japan did."

    Richard Harden: "That's true, and FDR never tried to convince us it was the Germans! Within a few days, Hitler declared war on the U.S. then we declared war on Germany.

    Letter: "Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us."

    Richard Harden: "Harry Truman did finish WWII but he hardly started the Korean War. Soviet-armed North Korean armies poured over the internationally-recognized border into an unprepared South Korea. There were so few U.S. troops there available that it was seriously considered abandoning the Korean Peninsula. The war was fought by and authorized by the United Nations."

    Letter: "John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962."

    Richard Harden: "Again, President Kennedy did not start the Vietnam war. It was a continuation of the civil war that followed the French withdrawal.

    Letter: "Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire."

    Richard Harden: "Hard to argue there. But this is history in 20-20 hindsight. What were his options? Could he realistically have allowed the North Vietnamese to take over South Vietnam in 1965?"

    Letter: "Clinton went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent,"

    Richard Harden: "That conflict was fought by NATO within NATO's operational area, i.e. Europe. As supporters of this ill-starred war in Iraq can attest, the French have rarely consented to anything the Americans have done since D-Day!

    Letter: "Bush has liberated two countries,"

    Richard Harden: "'Liberated' maybe. Occupied, definitely. We now have massive Army forces in those two countries. National Guard men and women have been torn from their lives here and sent to fight shadowy enemies in these countries with no end in sight. The cost cannot yet be counted. Recruiting for our armed forces is understandably down."

    Letter: "Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home"

    Richard Harden : "Nor do we bother charging the 600 people we hold without legal recourse of any kind in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Most of them are probably dangerous people but if so, let's prove it openly. By the way, nobody has been convicted of any crime related the World Trade Center attacks. Good detective work there, Mr. Bush."

    Letter: "Worst president in history? Come on!"

    Richard Harden: "Come on indeed." -- rdh

    From Prof. Cary de Wit:

    "The original author conflates the invasion of Iraq with the 'War on Terror.' Most liberals don't.

    The Taliban may have been crushed, but it has sprung back with a vengeance, and women in Afghanistan are hardly feeling liberated.

    Regional tribal warlords rule most of the country, and opium production is up to pre-Taliban levels.

    There were UN International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors in North Korea until Bush called Kim Jong Il a pygmy and named NK to the Axis of Evil. NK then kicked them out. As far as I know, NK hasn't allowed inspectors in since.

    Bush didn't put nuke inspectors in Iran or Libya, the UN IAEA did.

    Libya's cooperation with IAEA is credited by most of the people involved (not politicians or the press) to long-term, persistent diplomacy and delicate negotiations over the past decade. By the way, it's spelled Libya, not "Lybia."

    The IAEA is the same agency that Bush and Cheney attempted to discredit
    during the runnup to the Iraq invasion because the IAEA Director General, Mohamed ElBaradei, stated that there was no credible evidence that Iraq had nuclear weapons or had reconstituted any of it's pre-1990 nuclear programs.

    Other than that, I couldn't agree more with Mr. Harden."
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by 03Range
    Let's look at the worst president and mismanagement claims....
    Not convincing, the points you mentioned, bordering misinformation at times, according to the replies above?
    It took less time to take Iraq
    than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!
    I wasn't aware it took over a year to count the votes in Florida, even after the mission was accomplished, and that it is an ongoing process?

    Did you note that there wasn't really any progress in Iraq during the last months? E.g. the death toll doesn't go down at all, security is inexistent and kidnappings are more numerous than ever. Are you really sure it was a good idea to go to Iraq with such a small number of troops?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  13. #13  
    We need more threads. Or paramedics. ...Send more paramedics.
    In favor of goofy names: MyTreo.net.
  14. #14  
    talk about half truths.....

    http://www.nixtro.com/pentagon121.swf

    I'm not saying I believe it, it just makes you wonder...
  15. #15  
    There are also those that say that the US planned and organized the 9/11 attacks. Conspiracy theory or otherwise. I doubt we will ever know.

    Sites like this have to make you think twice
    http://www.unansweredquestions.org
    http://www.summeroftruth.org/
    http://www.letsrollheroes.com/

    Mike
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by freudov23
    Thank you Expat. Yet another example of fact vs fiction (or should I say half-truth).
    You really support that blustering, bloviating, patrician windbag with nary an original idea in his head? Caveat emptor....
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasmeister
    You really support that blustering, bloviating, patrician windbag with nary an original idea in his head? Caveat emptor....
    Interesting point. What would you say were Bush's original ideas? When looking from the outside, to my mind come:

    - Less taxes for the rich
    - Increased government spending
    - Almost never using a veto against any increase in government spending
    - Piling up depts
    - Medicare program with huge costs (very nice profits for pharma companies because no deal about price levels included - they rip you off, believe me)
    - Start war in Iraq because of WMD (no WMD found)
    - Start war in Iraq to fight terrorism (no meaningful connection of Saddam to terrorism)
    - Start war to get rid of a bad dictator (good, but at what cost?)

    And, last but not least:
    Bush cannot bring an end to the war in Iraq the way things are. Over a year after "mission accomplished", there are still major parts of the country not under control of the US/the Iraqi "government" (e.g. Sadr City in Bagdad with about 2 million inhabitants, the whole region south of Bagdhad, partly also the Basra region). The death toll does not go down, each month about 50 US soldiers die, it tends to get worse, not better. Numerous militant Islamistic groups are present in Iraq now (including Al Qaida), terror reigns, foreign workers needed to build up the country again leave Iraq because of the daily kidnappings and killings, each day government representatives are murdered, etc., etc.

    The terror of Saddam in Iraq has been replaced by the terror of Islamistic militants, and the situation is not getting any better, to the contrary...

    Bush went to Iraq without enough troops and without enough support to control the situation. That may have been an original idea, but certainly not a good one.
    Last edited by clulup; 09/09/2004 at 06:49 AM.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasmeister
    You really support that blustering, bloviating, patrician windbag with nary an original idea in his head? Caveat emptor....
    people in glass houses.....
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A tragic fire on Monday destroyed the personal library of President George W. Bush. Both of his books have been lost. Presidential spokesman Ari Fleischer said the president was devastated, as he had not finished coloring the second one...
  19. #19  
    Let me get this straight..
    Cheney said the other day if they are not re-elected we run risk of attack

    WTF happened under his watch aside from an attack that we were aware of before it happened, a war in Iraq that was planned before any attack, and as if 3000 killed in the attacks were not enough, we have already lost over 1000 soldiers, many of whom only signed up as weekend warriors to protect the US, not for a regime change or nation building.

    Four more years of what, insanity?? These people should not be re-elected! They should be impeached!!!!!

    If you are not OUTRAGED, you just aren't paying attention!


    In honor of our over 1000 soldiers who died..., not even mentioning the wounded...
    God knows how many of are men are scarred and mamed for life


    NYTimes.com > National
    <edit by ToolkiT, non working links cut, use link below>

    http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html...x_PICTURES.htm

    http://www.comedycentral.com/tv_show.../videos.jhtmll
    Last edited by ToolkiT; 09/09/2004 at 08:03 AM.
  20. #20  
    Try Spamming me,
    your long list of URLs messed up the lay out so I cut it out..
    The URL takes you through the page anyway and besides that deeplinking from other sources is a bit of a legal headache..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions