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  1. #161  
    thank you, I will!
    Palm V-->Visor Deluxe-->Visor Prism-->Visorphone-->Treo 180-->Treo 600-->Treo 650 on Sprint-->Treo 700p-->Centro-->Diamond-->Pre-->HTC EVO 4g???!
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    #162  
    Quote Originally Posted by snerdy
    Clulup actually had very interesting observations to offer about the United States involvement with World War Two. It's true, Bush probably meant that the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor was a signficant event to the United States, a strong catalyst for its declaring war with Japan and the beginning of a much more active role in the global conflict. On the other hand, to say that WWII started with Pearl Harbor is putting it kind of loosely.
    No one said that WWII started with Pearl Harbor. You and/or Clulup are putting words in Bush's mouth.

    Quote Originally Posted by snerdy
    Lies! ...Or perhaps Gore was also putting it kind of loosely. Generally, this kind of loose talk always gets the speaker into trouble. Bush, Quayle, Clinton, Gore, everybody -- all politicians eat it on this.
    Gore in particular had a nasty propensity for "putting things loosely." But he's irrelevant now so there's no point in arguing about him.
  3. #163  
    Quote Originally Posted by procure
    Gore in particular had a nasty propensity for "putting things loosely." But he's irrelevant now so there's no point in arguing about him.
    Maybe Gore will help Kerry "re-invent" himself
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  4. #164  
    Quote Originally Posted by procure
    No one said that WWII started with Pearl Harbor. You and/or Clulup are putting words in Bush's mouth.
    From a White House press release, the transcript of "Remarks by the President at the United States Air Force Academy Graduation Ceremony":
    Like the Second World War, our present conflict began with a ruthless, surprise attack on the United States.
    "Ruthless, surprise attack on the United States." Okay, so maybe Clulup and I are misunderstanding this. What do you think "ruthless, surprise attack on the United States" refers to, other than the attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbor.

    Edit: ooh, look -- you can even listen to the words coming out of Bush's mouth! Neat, huh?
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    #165  
    Quote Originally Posted by snerdy
    From a White House press release, the transcript of "Remarks by the President at the United States Air Force Academy Graduation Ceremony":

    "Ruthless, surprise attack on the United States." Okay, so maybe Clulup and I are misunderstanding this. What do you think "ruthless, surprise attack on the United States" refers to, other than the attack by the Japanese on Pearl Harbor.

    Edit: ooh, look -- you can even listen to the words coming out of Bush's mouth! Neat, huh?
    Yes, "Ruthless, surprise attack" refers to Pearl Harbor. And where did he say that WWII started with Pearl Harbor? Read the quote carefully.
  6. #166  
    In my reading of the sentence, the word "like" draws a connection between the two subjects, that connection being that they both began with a "ruthless, surprise attack on the United States".

    Would you care to explain, now that we've established that this is what Bush said, how it can be read as not saying that WWII began with Pearl Harbor?

    I'm honestly curious how you're reading the sentence.

    Edit: to fix up the quote and to add that what Bush meant by "began" isn't really a big issue to me -- I'm fine if he was simply pointing to Pearl Harbor as an emotional turning point. I'm just fascinated by your reading. Please, please explain your reading.
  7.    #167  
    geezus! this is getting absurd!
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    #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by snerdy
    Edit: to fix up the quote and to add that what Bush meant by "began" isn't really a big issue to me -- I'm fine if he was simply pointing to Pearl Harbor as an emotional turning point. I'm just fascinated by your reading. Please, please explain your reading.
    I think his point is that WWII started for the US with Pearl Harbor. Obviously the actual war began long before, but the US was drawn in because of the attack.
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    #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    geezus! this is getting absurd!
    I agree! Talk about nitpicking!
  10. #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    geezus! this is getting absurd!
    Quote Originally Posted by procure
    I agree! Talk about nitpicking!
    Aww, are you guys getting tired? Then perhaps you'd like to rethink comments like this:
    Quote Originally Posted by procure
    You and/or Clulup are putting words in Bush's mouth.
    Now that we've cleared up the fact that Bush actually said this thing and that no one is putting words in anyone's mouth -- yeah, what he probably meant was that Pearl Harbor was an emotional and symbolic turning point in the United States involvement in WWII as it specifically moved the country to declare war with Japan. However, it is entirely accurate to say that not only did WWII itself begin well before the attack on Pearl Harbor occurred, but also that the United States was involved in WWII well before the attack occurred.

    Personally, I don't see any reason to get all excited about Bush's choice of words in this address. This is the way politicians speak. Yeah, some more than others (and Gore is a perfectly good example), but this is nothing out of the ordinary. On the other hand, I do find the information Clulup posted interesting and I'm not really gonna sit by when someone says you "are putting words in [someone]'s mouth" (or, to paraphrase, now that we know how to interpret writing, "you're lying"). Nits will be picked, if required.

    So there.
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    #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by snerdy
    Now that we've cleared up the fact that Bush actually said this thing and that no one is putting words in anyone's mouth -- yeah, what he probably meant was that Pearl Harbor was an emotional and symbolic turning point in the United States involvement in WWII as it specifically moved the country to declare war with Japan. However, it is entirely accurate to say that not only did WWII itself begin well before the attack on Pearl Harbor occurred, but also that the United States was involved in WWII well before the attack occurred.
    We've cleared up nothing. The US declared war after Pearl Harbor. There was no military involvement until then. The US was drawn into the war because of that attack. Understand?

    Quote Originally Posted by snerdy
    Personally, I don't see any reason to get all excited about Bush's choice of words in this address. This is the way politicians speak. Yeah, some more than others (and Gore is a perfectly good example), but this is nothing out of the ordinary. On the other hand, I do find the information Clulup posted interesting and I'm not really gonna sit by when someone says you "are putting words in [someone]'s mouth" (or, to paraphrase, now that we know how to interpret writing, "you're lying"). Nits will be picked, if required.
    I never accused anyone of lying. Now you're putting words into MY mouth. Keep nitpicking if it interests you; for me and most others this is a trivial issue.
  12. #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by procure
    We've cleared up nothing. Understand?
    That's good that we've been able to reach this level of understanding -- I'm glad you agree with me.
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    #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by snerdy
    That's good that we've been able to reach this level of understanding -- I'm glad you agree with me.
    Once again, you are twisting someone's words around. You took a quote of mine, removed a few sentences, and pasted it back together. You just can't help yourself huh? You're hopeless.
  14. #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by procure
    You're hopeless.
    Free from hope! Wahoo!!
  15. #175  
    Yuck! I wake up on a beautiful Saturday morning and this string is what I end up reading! Anyway, although the string has long strayed from its original essay on ZigZagZell's speech at the convention, I thought some of you out-of-towners might enjoy this brief opinion piece:

    http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/news_feature.html
  16. #176  
    Hey, how about that Zell....
    yet another puppet do a great job reading cue cards filled with talking points for the military industrial complex that president Eishenhoer warned us about in 1960.....

    Again
    If you are not outraged, you just aren't paying attention
    Great Interview... video link below

    Gee , I guess he didn't have cue cards for the interview with Chris Matthews huh....
    http://video.msn.com/l.htm?t=1&i=77f...9-9afcf270061f
  17. #177  
    At first I thought he was just "bat-sh*t crazy" as John Stewart put it, but I thought MarkE's article from the local website was informative. And I do now feel sorry for Zel, and I don't think he really is as hateful and mean spirited as he was put up to be.
  18. #178  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    At first I thought he was just "bat-sh*t crazy" as John Stewart put it, but I thought MarkE's article from the local website was informative. And I do now feel sorry for Zel, and I don't think he really is as hateful and mean spirited as he was put up to be.

    Gee...why does he keep getting elected??
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  19. #179  
    Clairgrrl, aren't we are talking about what happened a week ago, maybe I am missing out on something, but did he get elected again last week? A person can have a brilliant career only to get duped or go temporarily bat-sh*t crazy towards the end. I am not saying he hasn't been a good politician, after reading Mark's article I know more about him than I did before. Now, I am just hoping that history will remember him for the good he has done in the past over many years, not the hateful words that he was given for one speech at one convention.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 09/11/2004 at 09:56 PM.
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