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  1. #101  
    Get some sleep, treobk214. Bush is OK, but nothing to write home about. Yawnnnnnnnnn...
    You don't stop laughing because you grow old. You grow old because you stop laughing.
    -Michael Pritchard
  2.    #102  
    I hear you, oops. believe me. I know all this political slush gets very tired and old. im bored of it myself right now... just answering some of the things the last poster questioned me on, that's all.... im ready to give a rest too though .. there are other things in life too... I agree
  3. #103  
    Today I read an old joke from the Cold War days:

    Proud American to Russian guy: ''In my country every one of us has the right to criticize our president.''

    Russian guy: ''Same here. In my country every one of us has the right to criticize your president.''
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  4.    #104  
    lol.!!! nice one, indeed!
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    saddam could have allowed total access to his country to thwart any invasion into his country. remember all those invaluable "UN" resolutions he ignored?
    I don't know, man -- it doesn't seem that simple.

    Unfortunately, I'm unable to write about this thought in any depth right now (unlike Fermat's situation, the margins aren't too narrow here, I just don't have the time), but here's a simple, open-ended observation:

    Is it really possible for the activities of nations to be credited to the decisions of a single individual?

    Edit: LOL at heberman's joke. Very much like the "In Communist Russia..." jokes in form.
  6. #106  
    Is it really true that Arnie claimed that Austria had a socialist government after ww2 in his convention speech, and that he watched soviet tanks roll down the street? Did anyone watch it?
    If that's what he said I'd like to know which planet he's on
    Animo et Fide
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    Is it really true that Arnie claimed that Austria had a socialist government after ww2 in his convention speech, and that he watched soviet tanks roll down the street? Did anyone watch it?
    If that's what he said I'd like to know which planet he's on
    Here is part of the speech:

    When I was a boy, the Soviets occupied part of Austria.

    SCHWARZENEGGER: I saw their tanks in the streets. I saw Communism with my own eyes. I remember the fear we had when we had to cross into the Soviet sector.

    Growing up, we were told, "Don't look the soldiers in the eye. Just look straight ahead." It was a common belief that Soviet soldiers could take a man out of his own car and ship him back to the Soviet Union as slave labor.

    Now, my family didn't have a car. But one day we were in my uncle's car. It was near dark as we came to the Soviet checkpoint. I was a little boy. I was not an action hero back then.

    (LAUGHTER)

    But I remember. I remember how scared I was that the soldiers would pull my father or my uncle out of the car and I would never see them again. My family and so many others lived in fear of the Soviet boot. Today, the world no longer fears the Soviet Union, and it is because of the United States of America.

    (APPLAUSE)

    SCHWARZENEGGER: As a kid I saw the socialist country that Austria became after the Soviets left. Now, don't misunderstand me, I love Austria, and I love the Austrian people.

    But I always knew America was the place for me. In school, when the teacher would talk about America, I would daydream about coming here. I would daydream about living here. I would sit there and watch for hours American movies transfixed by my heroes like John Wayne.
    I assumed he is telling the truth. What part do you believe was innacurate?

    I also liked his opening: "Thank you very much. Thank you. What a greeting. What a greeting. Wow. This is like winning an Oscar -- as if I would know."

    Pretty funny.
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  8. #108  
    Historians dispute Schwarzenegger's convention comments

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html
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  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by scottymomo
    Historians dispute Schwarzenegger's convention comments

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html
    Nice quote, thank you. So Schwarzenegger was caught lying at the Republican convention about "Socialist Austria"... That does not come as a surprise, and it will have no effect on the Republican voters. Why should they care about the fact that Schwarzenegger's account of his life in Austria was false?

    What do historical facts mean anyway? Take Bush on June the 3rd, 2004 as an example: "Like the Second World War, our present conflict began with a ruthless, surprise attack on the United States. We will not forget that treachery, and we will accept nothing less than victory over the enemy." Of course Bush meant Pearl Harbour - as if that was when World War II started... total ignorance about the most basic facts - who cares among his voters? (Details here)

    Or take Rumsfeld's comment on the death toll surpassing 1'000 dead Americans in Iraq yesterday: "Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld acknowledged the death toll earlier Tuesday, but told reporters at the Pentagon that going on the offensive against terrorism 'has its cost.'"

    Hadn't the Bush administration admitted (only after there was no other way of course) that Saddam had nothing to do with terrorism and Al Qaida??? Funny Rumsfeld brings this up again, seems to cling to the view somehow. No problem for him as long as they manage to make the majority believe Saddam was behind 9/11....

    Really, why care about facts, it is what they make people believe that counts. It does not make your situation in the real world any better, but you can certainly win elections that way.
    Last edited by clulup; 09/08/2004 at 07:48 AM.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  10. #110  
    hey clulup...nothing really suprises you, does it. It's seems that, in your mind, Americans have this propensity for lying. And these "lies" are on just about every aspect of American life and culture.

    Well here's one for you. Seems that the whole story of Wilhelm(William) Tell is pretty much a fabrication. Folklore. Your country's hero and his exploits are nothing more fantasy. Make a great Saturday morning cartoon.

    Your distain for the Unites States and it's policies is apparant in almost all of your posts. We welcome your opinion, but look at it like your national hero...as creative imagination.

    Thanks for stopping by.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    hey clulup...nothing really suprises you, does it. It's seems that, in your mind, Americans have this propensity for lying. And these "lies" are on just about every aspect of American life and culture.

    Well here's one for you. Seems that the whole story of Wilhelm(William) Tell is pretty much a fabrication. Folklore. Your country's hero and his exploits are nothing more fantasy. Make a great Saturday morning cartoon.
    Clairegrrl, where was I saying Americans in general have a propensity for lying? Please quote. It is not the first time you read a lot that isn't there into one of my posts. I specifically mentioned Schwarzenegger, not Americans in general, and if you read the link posted by scottymomo, I think you will agree with me that Schwarzenegger's story about "socialist Austria" is bogus since all the Austrian chancellors from 1945 to 1970 were conservatives, not socialists (Schwarzenegger left Austria in 1955).

    Regarding Bush I did not say he was a liar, I said he is ignorant about when World War II started. I don't think there is much you can say against my statement. Or do you agree with Bush that WWII began with Pearl Harbour? I think at least you know better, even if your president doesn't.

    Regarding Rumsfeld I said he uses misleading statements, to say the least.

    So please, before you accuse me of funny things next time, can you be a bit more specific and back your accusations with quotes?

    Regarding William Tell: that is really nothing new, of course he is much more a fictional character than a real life historical person. I guess everybody who cares knows that. Did I ever claim anything else? Sorry if I am not devastated by this "news". What is the point anyway, why do you mention it?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    creative imagination
    What other kind of imagination is there?
    Last edited by snerdy; 09/08/2004 at 09:12 AM.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    What do historical facts mean anyway? Take Bush on June the 3rd, 2004 as an example: "Like the Second World War, our present conflict began with a ruthless, surprise attack on the United States. We will not forget that treachery, and we will accept nothing less than victory over the enemy." Of course Bush meant Pearl Harbour - as if that was when World War II started... total ignorance about the most basic facts - who cares among his voters?
    For America, WWII did start with the Japaneese attack on Pearl Harbor. What is so innacurate about that statement? When do you believe WWII began for the U.S.?

    Or take Rumsfeld's comment on the death toll surpassing 1'000 dead Americans in Iraq yesterday: "Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld acknowledged the death toll earlier Tuesday, but told reporters at the Pentagon that going on the offensive against terrorism 'has its cost.'"
    And that is not a fact, how?

    Hadn't the Bush administration admitted (only after there was no other way of course) that Saddam had nothing to do with terrorism and Al Qaida???
    Sorry, no one has EVER made this claim. You just made it up to support your argument, but the administration has never said that "Saddam had nothing to do with terrorism and Al Quaida".

    Really, why care about facts, it is what they make people believe that counts.
    Clulup, for supposedly caring about accuracy, you sure play fast and loose with the facts, and you now even make a statement which is simply false. Nice try, but sorry, you aren't even close here.
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  14.    #114  
    clulup, how tiring these plays on the spoken word are becoming. I mean in all honesty, making big deals about these details is ridiculous- I guess this really actually only shows that you will reach for ANYTHING at all to make a stupid argument over. .if you listen to what bush is saying, you get the basic point he is driving at. but rather than concentrate on the point, you dive into to these innane arguments. silly. most don't buy that argument - they simply see that you are being unnecessarily argumentative.
    arnold may have been innacurate, but he's not the one running for president. case closed. the votes have this in perspective. we are REALLY listening to what the bush administration is saying, in addition to giuliani and mccain.
    I respect arnold, but also know he is neither a seasoned historian or politician. we take that into account.
    these innane little bickerings on such things become a joke after a while. at least arnold didn't say he "INVENTED THE INTERNET".
  15. #115  
    Who said they invented the internet? Where is a link with a quote that they said that?
  16.    #116  
    that was a joke. I was referring to when al gore ridiculously claimed he invented the internet back when he was campaigning.
    we could go off on those little details just as some are bickering over what arnold said at the rnc.
    it gets ridiculous.
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by heberman
    For America, WWII did start with the Japaneese attack on Pearl Harbor. What is so innacurate about that statement? When do you believe WWII began for the U.S.?
    Well, so far I thought there was only one WWII with only one beginning.
    And that is not a fact, how?
    It is a fact that Iraq had no meaningful connections to Islamistic terrorists like Osama bin Laden, so you cannot claim the war in Iraq is part of the war against those terrorist. But you can still insinuate it, in order to increase support for it in absence of better reasons like WMD.
    Sorry, no one has EVER made this claim. You just made it up to support your argument, but the administration has never said that "Saddam had nothing to do with terrorism and Al Quaida".
    Indeed, the administration never specifically claimed that, but there was plenty of mixing Saddam with 9/11. In the end, 70% of US citizens believed Saddam was involved in 9/11: "Nearing the second anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, seven in 10 Americans continue to believe that Iraq's Saddam Hussein had a role in the attacks, even though the Bush administration and congressional investigators say they have no evidence of this." (Thanks to mjw for the link) Why do you think such a high proportion of a population suddenly believes in something wrong? Maybe the idea sponaneously materialized in their heads? Or were some people constantly mixing Saddam and 9/11 in their statements, so that in the end people believed in a link, even if none was claimed directly?
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    It is a fact that Iraq had no meaningful connections to Islamistic terrorists like Osama bin Laden, so you cannot claim the war in Iraq is part of the war against those terrorist.
    I don't know if they are "like Osama bin Laden" but didn't Hussein give compensation to the families of suicide bombers in and around Israel?
  19. #119  
    It's interesting the labels which the media attach to polititians, and how those labels stick. Going on memory here:

    1. Bush - not smart
    2. Gore - exaggerates
    3. Dan Quayle - says stupid things
    4. Regan - cowboy
    5. Kerry - flip flopper
    6. Dean - The Scream
    7. Gary Hart - Woman on Boat
    8. Clinton - (OK, he's in the hospital, nevermind)
    9. Dukakis (sp?) - Willie Horton
    10. Carter - Astrologists and consulting with 9-year old on foreign policy
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  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    that was a joke. I was referring to when al gore ridiculously claimed he invented the internet back when he was campaigning.
    we could go off on those little details just as some are bickering over what arnold said at the rnc.
    it gets ridiculous.
    Right, only Gore never said that. It was a comment taken out of context then changed. Bush has many of those as well as "new words" he's created -only they're direct quotes. I could produce a link to one of many websites with page after page of quotes, but I too think it should rest.

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