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  1.    #1  
    I'm sure this is all over the media in the USA too, Ayatollah al-Sistani walks into Najaf and sorts the mess out by negotiation. He's retained credibility partly because he isn't linked to the USA or the coalition 'approved' government. I hope this man's views are respected and listened to when the constitution for Iraq is drawn up, because he clearly wants peace and is influential enough to bring the Iraqi Shias onside. Currently he has the trust of far more people in Iraq than the government has.

    This isn't a criticism of this USA administration in particular, there are several examples in the last century of USA backed, or installed, governments turning into dictatorships that were tolerated because they were USA friendly. If the same happens in Iraq it will be a real shame. There are also examples of USA backed governments turning into good democracies, but the potential for the worse case seems greater at the moment in Iraq.

    What do you think of these events?

    I know this type of post has the potential to turn into a battleground between the different political viewpoints, if it does I'll shut it down.
    Animo et Fide
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    What do you think of these events?
    Peter, my learned colleauge, It just sounds like another day in Iraq. No Biggie
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    I'm sure this is all over the media in the USA too, Ayatollah al-Sistani walks into Najaf and sorts the mess out by negotiation
    ...
    What do you think of these events?
    With all due respect for what Al-Sistani has achieved so far, I think Al-Sadr and his militia were also encouraged to negotiate by the fact that they had to choose between that and the imminent defeat in battle.

    ...there are several examples in the last century of USA backed, or installed, governments turning into dictatorships that were tolerated because they were USA friendly
    You mean like Saddam Hussein's Iraq? (Yes, I know he was also supported by the French and others...!). Maybe Iraq has the potential for democracy, the Iraqis are quite nationalistic and many of them think of themselves as Iraqis more than e.g. as Shiites or Sunnites or Kurds - however, I doubt it.

    In Afghanistan, I think we can safely assume that it will not become a democracy in the foreseeable future.

    Obviously, Bush is running campaign ads claiming that there are two new "free" countries now at the Olypics, and even links that to "democracies". That is really a joke, because there is no way you can call theses nations free or even democracies. Freed from one regime maybe, but still in the hands of terror and occupied by a foreign force. Bush also tried to score points with the Iraqi soccer team, something they didn't like at all.

    One of the players even said if he wasn't at the Olympics, he would "for sure" be fighting as part of the resistance in his home town Falluja. About Bush he asked: "How will he meet his god having slaughtered so many men and women? He has committed so many crimes." Mr. Bush is not overly popular in Iraq, it seems.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  4. #4  
    it was indeed too early to claim that two countries are now free. they are not entirely free from insurgency and unrest, as was stated, so I think making this statement was a bit premature.
    be that as it may, it will be very interesting to see how another elected individual may handle the current crises taking place currently - if he in fact wins the election. we will see definitively then if bush had taken the wayward path if his replacement can effect impressive changes in foreign sentiments toward the us as well as noticeable improvements in how we get the job done in iraq.
    personally, I think its time we leave iraq. the dictatorship is gone, a semblance of a new govt is in place, and people want to be separate from us interference. I think we should give that to them. let them form the type of govt they want now. its theirs to create now. if we do this, they may after all actually appreciate what was done. time will tell.
    but I am very curious as to what another president will do, and if the criticisms made on another president are actually acted effectively upon by the accusers. this will be interesting for sure.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    ... there are several examples in the last century of USA backed, or installed, governments turning into dictatorships that were tolerated because they were USA friendly. ...
    What about the British occupation of Iraq in 1917? There are alot of surprising simularities.
    And I'm sure the Bush administration is well aware of how and why they finally got out of Iraq in 1920.

    "For Iraq 1917, read Iraq 2003. For Iraq 1920, read Iraq 2004 or 2005."
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  6. #6  
    excellent point, blues!

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