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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by DHAnderson
    Woof,

    You are acting like a Troll by saying that someone who is a complete stranger to you is more qualified that Kerry.

    Just come out and say that you prefer Bush and quit the Kerry slamming. It does not look good on you.

    Troll? Please spare me. I am hardly a troll here.

    I'd say I have a 50-50 shot of being correct in saying a complete stranger is more qualified than Kerry. War record aside, the guy is a flake and cant stick to one side of an issue or another. He changes his mind to suit what he thinks is public opinion. Popularity is his goal. Real leaders dont care if they are popular. Popularity doesnt get the job done. But of course liberals cant see that, because their main goal is to offend no one and make everyone feel good.

    Like I give rat's **** what YOU think looks good on me. And why dont you take your advice and just say you prefer Kerry and stop slamming Bush? Or is that different?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    So much for superior intelligence. " Him and his wife"??? What the hell kind of grammar is that?

    For the record Bush and his wife do not oppse stem cell research. They support cautious research, because they realize that there are serious moral implications if we just rush headlong into it. No I dont remember the channel or the program where I heard Mrs Bush say that. I dont write notes when I watch the news.

    Of course I can only assume from your comments that you are a strong supporter of stem cell research without limits. Would you care to impregnate your wife and then donate your unborn offspring for the sake of that research? If no, please tell me why not.
    Please find a fact based news link that states that Bush isn't opposed to stem cell research.

    Also please find another link that documents that live fetuses from married couples will be sacrificed for the purposes of said research.

    We'll be waiting.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    So much for superior intelligence. " Him and his wife"??? What the hell kind of grammar is that?
    rather than turn this into a criticism of proper grammar usage and spelling , how about trying NOT to divert from the topic at hand and focus on the content.

    For the record Bush and his wife do not oppse stem cell research.
    Everything I've stated is yet to be factually disputed. I DARE YOU to link any politically unbiased evidence that GW supports "cautious research".

    Of course I can only assume from your comments that you are a strong supporter of stem cell research without limits. Would you care to impregnate your wife and then donate your unborn offspring for the sake of that research? If no, please tell me why not.
    you're questioning my intelligence when you're the one throwing assumptions left and right? are u kidding me? how about you stop trying to attack me and simply refute the arguement at hand? or would that be too mature and reasonable for you to do?

    this is not about my perspective about stem cell research or the level of my intelligence. this is about the validity of Kerry's candidancy.
    www.bubblespeed.com
  4. #64  
    I don't understand why threads such as these have to dissolve into name calling, generalizations, and bashing. We have an opportunity to debate important issues for the US, yet these threads seem to take the "low road."

    If one makes a statement, how about backing it up with links and thoughtful debate? Is that too much to ask of people here? Why all the name calling? We can take this opportunity to learn and express our views/the issues, or we can act like relative children and start in with the name calling. This is getting really old.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    1st part. women, especially mother should not be in combat in my opinion. I would not have been supportive of my wife staying in the military after becoming a mom for just that reason.
    I agree that mothers should not be forced into active combat duty. Neither should fathers for that matter. but the problem is, when you've commited to ROTC or you chosen to be part of the National Guard for education, there's a period of time after your active duty, where you may be called up for service. This woman in particular has not been in active duty for 5 years. She has 2 more years left of her commitment. She is 27 with 2 daughters. Legally, she could not leave the military even if she wanted to. This reason, of many, is why I do not agree with the policies that GW has laid down.

    Because obviously no one else but Bush would have ever decided to invade Iraq.
    I do not believe that conflict with Iraq was inevitiable. I do not believe that they were an immediate threat to us. I dont not believe that they had anything to do with 9/11. Quite honestly, Saddam was as much as a threat to us as Castro.

    Who knows maybe Jeb will decide Florida should invade Irag too.
    ummm - yeah.

    I actually have alot of respect for Jeb - he's the smartest of all the Bush boys. Its a shame he has the same public speaking skills as Al Gore.


    3rd part. It's pretty obvious that you are smarter than everyone else here so I will of course defer to your superior intellect.
    Where are you coming up with your assumptions? argue the point and get over it. If you think you're being convincing by trying to deride me and other people, its not working.

    Bah! Sorry to say you dont speak for all the military. I know you want to think you do but get over it.
    never said i did, never even implied it. i considered going into the ROTC program but other financial and academic opportunies made more sense for me. I have nothing but the utmost respect for people who dedicate themselves to military service.

    To a man my friends have said sure they may not like going but they joined the military to serve and if the Commander in Chief says go they go.
    and this is way I don't like GW. Its his policies and initiative that sent us to war.

    By the way - i noticed u never answered my point about people in the military needing to supplement their gear with personal purchases. Were u even aware that this is common practice?
    www.bubblespeed.com
  6.    #66  
    I have great respect for our military, I served myself, and I appreciate that the brave men and women who do volunteer are putting their lives on the line for us. They are the brave ones here. They are going to war whether or not they believe it is right, and believe me, there are quite a lot of active duty soldiers who have questions about this war.

    In the face of this, it really irks me when politicians who have done their best to avoid serving any combat duty (ie: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld) have no qualms about sending others in the face of harms way to do their political bidding.

    All of you people who think this war is so good, if you are in good health and between 18 and 30, then why don't you all go over there and fight your enemy? Why should some brave inner city youth, or appalachian farmboy who also looks at the military as a ticket out of poverty, fight for you?

    Obvioulsy Kerry fought for what he belived in and Bush did not, during their opportunity to serve in the military. That is one thing I can say that is very distinct between Kerry and Bush, Kerry knows firsthand what his troops will experience when they go to war, and Bush does not, and never will. And I think that is one reason why Kerry would be a much better commander in chief than Bush.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 08/21/2004 at 10:38 AM.
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurokitty
    Please find a fact based news link that states that Bush isn't opposed to stem cell research.

    Also please find another link that documents that live fetuses from married couples will be sacrificed for the purposes of said research.

    We'll be waiting.
    and just where do you suppose these fetuses will come from? The fetus fairy? Do you think that stem cells grow on trees? Or maybe there is a program where fetuses can voluntarily donate some of their stem cells. (link please)
    Last edited by Woof; 08/21/2004 at 12:05 PM.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by DJOrient
    rather than turn this into a criticism of proper grammar usage and spelling , how about trying NOT to divert from the topic at hand and focus on the content.



    Everything I've stated is yet to be factually disputed. I DARE YOU to link any politically unbiased evidence that GW supports "cautious research".



    you're questioning my intelligence when you're the one throwing assumptions left and right? are u kidding me? how about you stop trying to attack me and simply refute the arguement at hand? or would that be too mature and reasonable for you to do?

    this is not about my perspective about stem cell research or the level of my intelligence. this is about the validity of Kerry's candidancy.

    OOOH a dare!!

    If it's about Kerry's canidacy why then did YOU bring up Bush and his position on stem cell research??? What the hell does that have to do with Kerry? Nothing you are just slamming Bush.

    And for what its worth, assumptions have nothing to do with intelligence. They are a conclusion based on information. I could have said "based on your staements I have drawn the conclusion that...." Same damn thing. Using the word assumption is an exercise in word economy.

    Besides you are fun to get riled up.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  9. #69  
    Regarding knowledge of military life and speaking for it

    Quote Originally Posted by DJOrient
    never said i did, never even implied it. i considered going into the ROTC program but other financial and academic opportunies made more sense for me. I have nothing but the utmost respect for people who dedicate themselves to military service.
    you previously said this.
    Quote Originally Posted by DJOrient
    if you don't know any military personel who spent out of their own pockets for better gear including bulletproof vests, rifle scopes, and boots, then it is pretty obvious u do not know / understand military life.
    I am sorry but my interpretation of that statement is that YOU do know/understand military life. That is what you were trying to say, no? You know and understand it and I dont?


    By the way - i noticed u never answered my point about people in the military needing to supplement their gear with personal purchases. Were u even aware that this is common practice?
    No I was not aware. No one I know in the military has ever said they had to go out get their own stuff. But you know what I'll start asking the next time I meet some one. Of course it wont mean anything when I get an answer because I wont be able to provide a link to the conversation.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurokitty
    Please find a fact based news link that states that Bush isn't opposed to stem cell research.

    Also please find another link that documents that live fetuses from married couples will be sacrificed for the purposes of said research.

    We'll be waiting.
    Yes I will spend the weekend scouring the internet to appease you. In the mean time please dont make any statements that you cannot support without unbiased fact based links so the rest of us can confirm your position.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by DJOrient
    Everything I've stated is yet to be factually disputed. I DARE YOU to link any politically unbiased evidence that GW supports "cautious research".
    ummm...would it be considered "politically unbiased" if they were the words that Bush spoke. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010809-2.html
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    ummm...would it be considered "politically unbiased" if they were the words that Bush spoke. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0010809-2.html

    Thanks Clairegrrl. I appreciate your efforts.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Yes I will spend the weekend scouring the internet to appease you. In the mean time please dont make any statements that you cannot support without unbiased fact based links so the rest of us can confirm your position.
    Go back and read my posts again. I've provided fact based links for my arguments. You have not. I have also not resorted to ad hominem attacks because my arguments were disagreed with.

    As for stem cell research: Bush has a dilemma on his hands. He cannot pander to the pro-life/church lobby while at the same time supporting ANY kind of stem cell research.

    Perhaps if you watch someone die from Alzheimer's Disease, as I did, you might think differently about this issue.

    This is a well written article on the subject.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in628171.shtml

    This is also an article about the lack of body armor:


    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?cha...1E83414B7F0103

    Where's the Shining Armor?
    New technology aims to better protect soldiers and vehicles in Iraq
    By Frank Vizard

    Americans may view their soldiers as knights in shining armor, but in Iraq, soldiers are often short on protection, particularly while riding their mechanized steeds. As casualties rise, the Pentagon is rushing to equip its soldiers and vehicles with new and better armor. In the short term, soldiers will get body armor upgrades that better guard previously vulnerable areas like the groin and sides of the body. Some vehicles, meanwhile, will be getting special reactive armor designed to thwart rocket attacks. In the long term, however, a soldier's best protection may come from new technologies being developed by military laboratories such as the Office of Naval Research and the Army Research Laboratory.

    The shortage of effective armor for troops serving in Iraq borders on the scandalous. Body armor has been in such short supply that soldiers have been buying their own. Supplementary body armor packages that protect the arms and sides of the body began shipping only in May. Soldiers are draping their Kevlar vests over the sides of unarmored Humvees and using scrap wood and metal on the vehicle's floor for makeshift protection against roadside explosives. The army is scrambling to install steel doors and bulletproof glass on Humvees as quickly as possible, a move the Army Material Command estimates could reduce casualties by 25 percent. Some 4,500 Humvees are expected to be "up-armored" by the end of this month. Meanwhile, the army's vaunted new wheeled Stryker vehicles, though armored, may not be able to withstand the impact of a rocket-propelled grenade (RPG), a favorite insurgent weapon, and now sports an unwieldy add-on metal cage for extra protection.


    The problems with lack of equipment trace directly back to the Office of Special Plans and the coup by Rumsfeld, Feith and Wolfowitz to remove war planning from seasoned State Department personnel and substitute their fantasy of what it would be like: us greet as liberators. This had two immediate results: 1) Too few of the wrong troops. The army wanted two or three more heavy armor brigades (about a division) for the ground war instead of the cavalry/light armor brigades used. This would have meant more Abrams/Bradlees/up armored HMMVs rather than unarmored HMMVs and other vehicles. This meant hight casualty rates. More to the point 2) is that the force structure meant that not only were not enough troops and supplies in the invasion, the follow on material support did not include things like body armor, up armored HMMVs and the like. There was also a year of denial by Rumsfeld et al that these things were necessary. Read some blogs from soldiers in Iraq – they were asking for more body armor from day one. They were being told that, since they would be home in six months, it wasn't necessary. This led to situations in which soldiers' families were buying level IIIa armor and sending it over to Iraq in the mail.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurokitty
    Go back and read my posts again. I've provided fact based links for my arguments. You have not. I have also not resorted to ad hominem attacks because my arguments were disagreed with.

    As for stem cell research: Bush has a dilemma on his hands. He cannot pander to the pro-life/church lobby while at the same time supporting ANY kind of stem cell research.

    Perhaps if you watch someone die from Alzheimer's Disease, as I did, you might think differently about this issue.

    This is a well written article on the subject.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in628171.shtml
    Sorry for your loss.

    See the above link, clearly stating Bush does support stem cell research.

    And please go back and answer the question about the fetuses. Where do you think they are going to come from?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Sorry for your loss.

    And please go back and answer the question about the fetuses. Where do you think they are going to come from?
    Directly from the CBS news article:

    "Embryonic stem cells come from embryos - mostly frozen leftovers slated to be thrown away from fertility clinics".
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurokitty
    Directly from the CBS news article:

    "Embryonic stem cells come from embryos - mostly frozen leftovers slated to be thrown away from fertility clinics".

    Ok point taken. Great. I would say that those that oppose embryonic research do not wish to say ya go ahead and work on embryos because they do not wish to open up the other source of embryos. It's the 'mostly' that worries some people. And of course the fact that CBS is a comepletely unbiased fact based source.

    Also note that you eliminated my reference to the link stating Bush's support of stem cell research. Isn't that good enough for you?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurokitty
    .... This led to situations in which soldiers' families were buying level IIIa armor and sending it over to Iraq in the mail.
    Would you mind providing receipts?
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Ok point taken. Great. I would say that those that oppose embryonic research do not wish to say ya go ahead and work on embryos because they do not wish to open up the other source of embryos. It's the 'mostly' that worries some people. And of course the fact that CBS is a comepletely unbiased fact based source.

    Also note that you eliminated my reference to the link stating Bush's support of stem cell research. Isn't that good enough for you?
    What would be "the other source" of embryos? Would women be selling them on the black market or something???

    As for Bush's policy, he has stated on more than one occasion that he does not support federal funding of stem cell research and that only existing stem cell material can be used in extremely limited research. That research does not include research for Alzheimers, spinal injury or diabetes.

    What do you think of the Reagan family's opinions on this issue? Do you support them?
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Woof
    Would you mind providing receipts?
    I speak to these people and their families during the course of my day, almost every day, in my work with the Veteran's Administration. Since you seem like such a patriotic guy, perhaps you might consider visiting your nearest VA hospital to do some volunteer work. You'll meet these people and it might change your views a little about the way our soldiers are REALLY being treated.
  20. #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurokitty
    What would be "the other source" of embryos? Would women be selling them on the black market or something???
    ever heard of abortion?

    As for Bush's policy, he has stated on more than one occasion that he does not support federal funding of stem cell research and that only existing stem cell material can be used in extremely limited research. That research does not include research for Alzheimers, spinal injury or diabetes.
    Guess there is no private funding of stem cell research. Oh wait you want the goverment to pay for everything.

    What do you think of the Reagan family's opinions on this issue? Do you support them?
    Which opinion, Ron's? Or Mike's? or Nancy? or Patty? Last I could tell they were not all in agreement.
    “There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.”
    — Ed Howdershelt
    "A government big enough to give you everything you want, is big enough to take away everything you have."- Thomas Jefferson
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