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  1.    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tribalenvy
    It seems you have a chip on your shoulder, as you're consistently misspelling clulup's name (it's comparable to misspronouncing someone's name over and over...it becomes rude) and blaming him for comments someone else made. The comments in this particular post seem worst of all. You've got far better debating skills than this...let's keep it civil.
    come on, tribal. where did i misspell the guy`s name? now were getting petty. i have no chip on my shoulder. others seem to have one with me - case in point - snerdy. ok? i was the one who originally asked for civil discussion.. i wasnt the one bringing this garbage in here initially. so why not request better debating skills of some of the other "debators" in this thread? please.

    if ya want to mud sling, go elsewhere folks. im not a big fan of that style.
    i didnt initiate it. look at my opening remarks, alright?
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    come on, tribal. where did i misspell the guy`s name? now were getting petty. i have no chip on my shoulder. others seem to have one with me - case in point - snerdy. ok? i was the one who originally asked for civil discussion.. i wasnt the one bringing this garbage in here initially. so why not request better debating skills of some of the other "debators" in this thread? please.

    if ya want to mud sling, go elsewhere folks. im not a big fan of that style.
    i didnt initiate it. look at my opening remarks, alright?
    You've misspelled his name throughout this thread. It's clulup, not chulup. In one post you managed to call him both obnoxious and irritating among other things.

    You can hold your own with resorting to name calling, that is all.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    case in point - snerdy.
    Whoo-hoo! That's me!!

    Alright, here's my mud:

    Cigars in asses -- you want to talk about Clinton but you're not willing to talk about the cigars?

    Being scared -- are you saying you're not scared? What are we talking about then? ...Why aren't you scared?

    Being confused -- oh, we're confused, alright. I'm sorry if you feel insulted when I include you in this big group of confused people. What do you want to call it when you don't know about things. Any name. Seriously, I'll call it whatever you want. (Unless you want to say you aren't "confused," in which case ...you're confused.)

    That's what I have to sling. Sorry you feel insulted.

    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    i was the one who originally asked for civil discussion.
    "Don't think of a polar bear." (Do you have any idea what that means?)
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by murrayalex
    there's a fundamental difference between our cultures, US, Europe etc and these Middle Eastern extremist chappies, one that we fail to grasp and which makes me think we can never 'defeat" them. We torture a few prisoners and we're all shocked because we can't accept that type of behaviour, they shoot / cut off people's heads on live TV and think NOTHING of it. We may never win a war with these people because they are prepared to sacrifice everything to get what they want, they are extremist in their beliefs and will act accordingly...thankfully, we won't
    IRA, ETA, Brigate Rosse, Rote Arme Fraktion... they are/were all totally fanatic terrorists who would do ANYTHING to reach their goals, even kill children. And they lived among us, right here. Do you really think they cannot rival an Al Qaida terrorist? What about the Nazis - you think the Saudi bin Laden is worse than the German Hitler regarding cruelty? I doubt it. What about Lenin and his communist comrades? He even killed more than Hitler...

    No sir, I don't think there is less potential for extremism in the Western World. But you know what the good new is? Did the Brits leave Ireland because of IRA, did the Spanish hand over the Basque Region to ETA? Did Hitler achieve his goals? No he didn't, and Al Qaida wont either, no matter how cruel and extremist they are.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    come on, tribal. where did i misspell the guy`s name?
    Only every time you used it - But it's ok, I really don't mind
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  6. #66  
    Well this thread strayed! I think most peoples views are fairly well known (at least those of us who hang around in OT ) so I'm not even going to put mine forward any more than I have already. Have we decided why Bill J. Clinton is popular yet?
    Animo et Fide
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by PeterBrown
    Well this thread strayed! I think most peoples views are fairly well known (at least those of us who hang around in OT ) so I'm not even going to put mine forward any more than I have already. Have we decided why Bill J. Clinton is popular yet?

    Yes, it has. There are timelines which list all of Clinton's accomplishments, but I don't think his popularity had much to do with any of them. I believe his popularity had much to do with his ability to listen to people, and the many town hall meetings he had before and after becoming president. When he was asked a question he focused intently on it, making the person asking feel as though he truly cared about the issue they raised. He'd then answer the question as though he really did listen. Not always an easy task when the polititian doesn't want to answer the question, or wants to get their agenda across as well. He was a regular guy who fought the odds to go on to bigger and better things (something we all want.) The news would show him eating at McDonald's which further enforced that every day kind of guy. He was someone who had a plan about the future, and it was positive. Those aspects helped to get him elected. I think he is a master of gestures and vocal control...which helped as well.

    What keeps him popular today? I'm not sure, but perhaps it's all the scandal. Perhaps it's the book deals.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    That is not true. UN inspections were progressing fast, inspectors were pulled out because the US attack was imminent.

    The UN inspectors never said Saddam still had WMD, they just said "we can't be sure yet he destroyed everything, we need more time" - They didn't get it due to US attack. If others said Saddam still had WMD, they were wrong.
    The number of troops was FAR greater in the Kuwait war, and international support was FAR stronger. Diplomacy was something Bush senior understood, in contrast to his son.
    I don't hate Bush, I just think he does stupid things. I am an outside observer, I don't have such strong feelings about him.
    It's taken me a long time reading this thread to say anything. Claudio you and your EU buddies act like a bystander watching a playground bully beat up an innocent child and doing nothing about it. It's much easier to stand back and watch, or even just walk away, but most Americans are responsible people and would intervene. This basic moral background is what drives our government to protect those nations being bullied by others.

    The facts are simple to see I think. The '80s saw the fall of the Soviet Union mostly due to the foreign and defense policies of America. Over 100 million Eastern Europeans were freed from communism as a result of this. Millions of South Koreans would be under the control of North Korea if US troops were not there to help protect them. Millions of Taiwanese have freedom due to the protection of the United States.

    The evil Serbian dictator Slobodan Milosevic, who is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people in the Balkans, has been removed due to American-led action. The evil Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, who is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, has been removed due to American- and British-led action. Add to that the millions of people in Haiti and Central America that have been kept out of totalitarian governments due to the policies of this country.

    In our long history, we have freed more people than the rest of the world combined. Shame on the US if we become like Canada, France, Germany, Sweden or Switzerland and allow injustice to take place all over the world.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  9. #69  
    Clairegrrl... thank you.
    Avatars.... <hrumpphh> I guess, since all the cool kids are doing it.
  10. #70  
    I agree with many things you wrote. It is true that the US have a big and powerful army, and that they use it more often than other nations. Most often the US are on the side of freedom, they have been fighting against communism for long and have helped many nations to stay out of the influence of communism. I think, as a general rule, the US fight for the freedom of other nations if they think they have an interest in that: it was not mainly altruistic that the US fought for South Korea or in Vietnam, the US were fighting the other super power, and tried to keep its influence and power low.

    Also in WWII, the US did not really feel inclined to fight against Hitler and the Japanese before Pearl Harbour and the war started approacing the US, and it became clear it would be easier to fight Hitler in Europe than to risk him winning in Europe and then have to fight in the US later.

    South America and Latin America are probably not so good examples of the US helping the people of other nations against evil dictators. In most cases there, the US would help ruthless dictators to keep their power as long as they kept down communist ideas and influence, no matter how cruel the dictators were.

    Also attributing the fall of the former Soviet Union to the US foreign and defence policy does not seem convincing to me. The main problem of the Soviet Union was that communism does not work as well as capitalism, so they were doomed anyway.

    The case Milosevic is a very good one. The Europeans were far too undetermined and hesitant in the face of this conflict, that was really a shame for Europe. I also think Europe should have a stronger army and be more active, but for historical reasons, this is not that easy and will take time.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  11.    #71  
    we all feel confused. sure. this is wartime - who doesnt have that uncertain gut feeling right now? but lets put that to bed. we are trying to make sense of whats going on in the world, with a focus of the attempt to remain civil to each other as we do so.
    we'll get much further on that level.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by treobk214
    we all feel confused. sure. this is wartime - who doesnt have that uncertain gut feeling right now? but lets put that to bed. we are trying to make sense of whats going on in the world, with a focus of the attempt to remain civil to each other as we do so.
    we'll get much further on that level.
    I perfectly agree. I will put my gut feelings to bed now together with myself, it is past 1 a.m. where I live. Bye!
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  13. #73  
    If we used your approach Claudio, the world would be a very different place, and not for the better. I guess we dont have the liberty to sit back and "watch", remaining neutral and playing both sides ensuring that we would be the winner no matter how things turned out.

    Its just easy to criticize when you dont hafta be the one to do anything. And besides, like I told you before, you need more then Swiss Army Knives, genuine or original, to equip your army
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  14. #74  
    The have wonderful chocolates...no one fights with them
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tribalenvy
    The have wonderful chocolates...no one fights with them
    I thought it was "Dutch" chocolate that was good
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  16. #76  
  17. #77  
    What about Godiva?? It's excellent and it's from another non-country... Belgium
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  18. #78  
    Ok, if you at all respect chocolate, you will start a new topic on the matter. Chocolate deserves its own topic. Chocolate deserves it's own forum.

    I'm sure once you do no one will agree on the absolute best chocolate out there, tho few of us are truly armed to make a comparison (myself included) as we haven't tried it all.

    Which means we'll need an impartial taste tester and everyone else to ship their choice of chocolates to for review. I volunteer.

    Bill Clinton to chocolate? Is there a connection?
    Last edited by Tribalenvy; 08/05/2004 at 07:06 PM. Reason: I dun spelt it rong
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tribalenvy
    Bill Clinton to chocolate? Is there a connection?
    ummm...both can make your fingers sticky??
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  20.    #80  
    i think i figured out why this thread went the way it did. a few negative comments toward clinton and his supporters lash out with their claws ready to slash.

    well i believe this thread has run its course. is clinton popular? yes to certain folks for various reasons.

    now we may now change the thread title to either:

    "number of posts"
    or "random comments" or "is this thing on?" or is it ok for an off topic thread to go off topic?"

    "clinton and the swedish chocolate factory"

    good night folks!
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